S2 Episode Eight: Reaching the peak of your legal career through a new way of leadership with Rika Nakajima
Full transcript follows.
If you are finding that you are letting your current circumstances stagnate your legal career, then this is the episode for you. Rika Nakajima is one of the first Japanese women lawyers to hold the office of Representative Corporate Executive Officer in Japan, and as a single parent to two boys, she has definitely not let her circumstances get in the way of her career and taking the leaps that have led her to where she is today.
If you enjoyed this episode and it inspired you in some way, we’d love to hear about it and know your biggest takeaway. Head over to Apple Podcasts to leave a review and we’d love it if you would leave us a message here!
In this episode you’ll hear:
How Rika convinced her father to let her study abroad and ultimately become a lawyer
The transitions through various phases of Rika’s legal career both in the US and Japan
Why she decided to leave her role at PWC and what happened when she made that decision
The importance of diverse and impartial voices in the corporate boardroom
Why Rika was chosen for promotion to Representative Corporate Executive Officer at her organisation
Her favourite books and other fun facts
About Rika
Born and raised in Japan first attending Sophia University's Comparative Cultural department in 1990 Rika then took herself over to the United States to transfer to Brown University, graduating with a bachelor of arts and honors.
In 1992 Rika then went on to take her Juris Doctorate qualification at American university, Washington College of Law in 1997 passing the New Jersey State Bar in 1998 and the New York State Bar in 2001. Rika has had over 20 years experience, having worked in prominent law firms and companies across Japan and the US. Her first law role as a qualified attorney was Ernst & Young, both in New York and in Tokyo as a tax manager. She then transitioned to tax associate at Baker McKenzie and then moved to become the Legal and Compliance Manager at Macquarie Group in 2008. Rika joined Shearman and Sterling, LLP as an associate in March 2012, After Shearman, Rika took on the role of Senior Manager at PWC and the office of General Counsel from October 2014, right through to December 2020. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Rika changed jobs being hired at Oracle, Japan as the associate general counsel and in fast succession, in July 2021 Rika took up the role of corporate executive officer followed by a second promotion to representative corporate executive officer in August 2021.
Connect with Rika
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rikanakajima/
Links
Bubby’s Restaurant: https://bubbys.jp/locations/ark-hills/
Happiness Becomes You, by Tina Turner https://www.amazon.co.jp/Happiness-Becomes-You-Guide-Changing/dp/198215215X
Nitori CEO's book: 運は創るもの ―私の履歴書
Connect with Catherine
Linked In https://www.linkedin.com/in/oconnellcatherine/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawyeronair
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/catherine.oconnell.148
Twitter: https://twitter.com/oconnelllawyer
Transcript
Catherine: Hi everyone! Welcome to Episode Eight in Season Two of Lawyer on Air, I'm Catherine O'Connell. Today I'm joined by Rika Nakajima, who is Associate General Counsel and Representative Corporate Executive Officer at Oracle Japan. Rika is responsible for the management of general commercial and business transactions in the company.
The Oracle brand is a household name and one, I am very sure, that everyone who is listening will know. You know them as a cloud technology company that provides organisations around the world with computing infrastructure and software to help businesses innovate, unlock efficiencies, and become more effective. Born and raised in Japan, first attending Sophia University's comparative cultural department in 1990, Rika then took herself over to the United States to transfer to Brown University, graduating with a Bachelor of Arts and honors in 1992.
Rika then went on to take her Juris doctor qualification at American university, Washington College of Law in 1997. And then she passed the New Jersey State bar in 1998. And after that, the New York State bar in 2001. Rika has had over 20 years experience, having worked in prominent law firms and companies across Japan and the US. Her first law role as a qualified attorney was in EY both in New York and in Tokyo as a tax manager.
She worked there for five and a half years before jumping ship to start as a tax associate at Baker McKenzie in Tokyo. From Bakers she then moved to Macquarie group and became their legal and compliance manager in 2008 and was there for three years. And then with a desire to move into a law firm role, Rika joined Shearman and Sterling LLP as an associate in March 2012, where she stayed for around two and a half years.
And I think it was about this time I met Rika. So we've known each other for quite a while now. After Shearman, Rika took on the role of senior manager at PWC in the office of general counsel from October, 2014, right through to December, 2020. During the COVID-19 pandemic, so just on one year ago, Rika changed jobs, being hired at Oracle, Japan as the Associate General Counsel. In fast succession and July 2021 Rika took up the role of Corporate Executive Officer.
And then in August this year, she was elevated a further step higher when another senior woman in the company saw the brilliance of Rika and pulled her up yet another step higher on the ladder to become the Representative Corporate Executive Officer of Oracle, Japan. Well, that's a fairly easy title to say, but in fact, the number of women holding representative corporate executive officer roles in Japan are very few. The number of men holding that office who are also a lawyer is just one.
But the number of women who are holding that office as women lawyers is just two, and you know what? They are both at Oracle, Japan. So what is remarkable is that Rika and her colleague, another lawyer who is a female, hold this role jointly. They are the only duo of female lawyers who are also representative corporate executive officers in Japan.
So Rika joining Oracle and taking up this role is really history breaking and a remarkable story in itself. And I think it tells us that even as female lawyers, we can aspire to be at the very top of an organisation. And that can happen even if we may not be aware that this kind of reward is on its way to being delivered to us on the front doorstep of our lives.
Well, this role is a super heavyweight role, but in talking with Rika before her recording of this episode, she seems to approach the role with ease and a sense of lightness in that she doesn't force over expectations on herself in this role, but rather takes each day as the first day. And with a learner leader mindset and with happiness at her core. I know you will really enjoy hearing from Rika, how she is approaching this associate general counsel role in tandem with her representative corporate executive officer role, being passionate about coaching others, to draw out their inner spirit to excel.
All the while balancing her work and being a single mother to two sons, and never forgetting her hobbies and interests that keep her centered. I'm sure you'll see how these golden threads of passion weave their way through all of the activities that Rika immerses herself in. Rika is an example of yet another tremendous way to be a lawyer extraordinaire and a leader extraordinaire.
And I'm so proud and excited to bring Rika Nakajima to you today as my guest. Rika, welcome to the show.
Rika: Thank you so much for having me, Catherine.
Catherine: I'm so excited. Today, Rika, we're going to talk about all kinds of topics, your early days in Japan, what led you to switch over to the US to study and your path into the law, your career journey in Japan, landing your massive dual role, and being a leader, role model, supervising a team of lawyers, your north star happiness.
And I would love you to also offer up some gems of advice for what some young lawyers should be thinking about for their careers in law and ahead.
How does all of that sound?
Rika: That sounds great, Catherine.
Catherine: Well, today we are talking online, but Rika if we were going to be meeting up in person, where would we be?
Do you have a favorite cafe or restaurant or wine bar you love to go to? And what would be your choice off the menu?
Rika: I spent about a decade in the US, for school, undergrad law school and work, and I just love American, just good old traditional American food. So I think we would be meeting at Bubby’s in Akasaka and we would have maybe a cup of tea.
Maybe we could have an apple pie on the side. We would do that and we’d sit out on the terrace and enjoy each other's company.
Catherine: Oh, sounds nice. Bubbies in Akasaka. Okay. That's a date. Let's do that when we can get together in person. That is so cool. Well, I mentioned at the top of the show Rika that you and I met, gosh, it was 10 years ago, I think.
And I think it was Laurie LeBron that introduced you to the organisation at the time, which was Foreign Women Lawyers Association, FWLA, and we started to work together on the board there. And I think that was around the time you were at Shearman and Sterling. And I can remember, yeah, I can remember several of our committee meetings at restaurants in Tokyo and FWLA is no longer, but we do have a new organisation, Women in Law Japan. But Rika going back to those events at that time and the organisation for women lawyers and also for men, it was important for us.
Wasn't it? For networking and communicating with other lawyers outside of work.
Rika: Yeah, I think so. And you know, if it weren't for these organisations, we would never have an opportunity to meet. So yeah. It was very important and meaningful.
Catherine: So true. And then we lost track of each other just a little while.
And then recently our brilliant episode, Season One guest, episode three I believe, Lawyer on Air, Aramide Fields, connected with you on LinkedIn. And through what is a force weaving its way through this podcast, which I will call serendipity, we were magically then reunited. And so I was able to have you on the show today.
Don't you just love, Rika, how life delivers us people and experiences just at the right time when we need it?
Rika: Yeah, I think so. I mean, such a force of the universe, right? I mean, Aramide is like, I call her my cheerleader and then through Aramide, I meet you, and you're another cheerleader. So you both take me out of my comfort zone, you know, just push me to the next level. So I love that.
Catherine: I hope we take you out of a comfort zone into a nice area though, that you're not feeling uncomfortable. Well, it's certainly a pleasure to have you on my podcast today. So we're going to talk about your early days and your substantial career so far.
And you've had pretty much a few pivotal points where you swapped over to the U S to continue to study, you know, that role at PWC, and I think this new journey at Oracle. and so I want to go there, but first the question I always ask my guests is what you wanted to be when you were a child, when you were young and you were thinking about the future.
Rika: When I was a junior high student, so this is in seventh grade, eighth grade, I taught Japanese elementary school students, English, and I enjoyed it so much. So it was like a kid teaching a kid kind of a thing. And I loved teaching, and I love little children, so I sort of wanted to be a teacher.
Catherine: Wow. Hang on. Hang on. How old are you when you’re a junior high school student?
Rika: Yes, I was literally like a 13 year old teaching a fourth grader. So like a 10 year old. But I was still the sensei, and I was making money as a student.
Catherine: You were an early on entrepreneur, I have to say, teaching.
That's fantastic. And then you had your formative schooling in Japan and you really loved English?
Rika: Yeah. I loved English and going to Brown University, it was the first time living in the US, and I learned English through school, so I was in elementary school, Japanese public school for the first, almost four years of my life, transferred over to Seisen International in fourth grade and graduated from American school in Japan.
I just always loved learning English and also learning Japanese too. I love just learning languages.
Catherine: Wow. What happened there? You were studying English and you loved it. You were also then wanting to go to the US and further your English study I believe. I think the story you were telling me just a little a bit about before, but I'd love to hear a little bit more on that.
Rika: My older sister and my younger brother are, they both went to private schools in Japan. And actually, I ended up going to a public Japanese school in elementary school because I just simply didn't get in.
And my father didn't like that. He didn't like the fact that I, you know, went to a public school. He said, a proper Japanese girl should go to a nice, private school, like an all girls school. And his ex-girlfriend was actually a fourth grade teacher at Seisen International.
And that's how I weaved myself into international school. So that's where my fate, compared to my sister and my brother, started to take a different route. So when I graduated from SIJ,I told my father that I really want to study in the United States. I want to go to college because all my friends went to college in the United States and he said, absolutely no, you're going to a Japanese university.
So he pretty much made me apply to Sophia university in Japan. And I got in. And he was so happy. He's like my goodness, I always wanted you to go to a good Japanese private university, and for him it was like I made it, and I said, well, you know, I really want to study in the US and he said, well, if you really want to study in the US, you have to become a lawyer or a doctor.
And so it was a promise that I had to make with my father before going to Brown as a sophomore. That was the reason why I became a lawyer, basically, to fulfill my promise to my father.
Catherine: So you had to become either a lawyer or a doctor. And so was doctor out of the question?
Rika: Yeah, yeah. And I liked communication and languages and it sort of fit me a little bit more.
Catherine: Yes. Interesting. And so was the US everything you wanted it to be, you had dreamt about? What were the sort of first memories you had when you arrived in the States?
Rika: So I spent about a year and a half in Sophia and most of the time I just remember myself playing golf because I joined the golf team there and just bonding, you know, with the woman there and having really good memories of the friendships that I formed at Sophia.
So the first year at Brown was actually quite hard because coming from that Japanese team and environment, and going to the elite university, I just kinda got the sense that people are a little bit more selfish.
And also, I had lost my mother from breast cancer a year before, so really, it was just a really hard year. I remember coming back after that one year, finishing the year at Brown and I was still enrolled at Sophia. I had taken a year off and I struggled.
I said, I don't want to go back to Brown anymore. I really miss the Sophia life. And I still remember the conversation I had with my father over sushi. I said, I'm thinking about going back to Sophia. And he said, well, if you go back to Sophia, you’ll feel defeated for the rest of your life.
You need to just go back to Brown and conquer the environment. From a guy that actually didn't want me to study in the US, he was the one that actually pushed me to continue my studies in the United States.
Catherine: He wanted you to be in Japan and then he’s saying, no, go back to Brown. Keep going. That's amazing.
Rika: Yeah that’s right. Going back to Brown as a junior, because I transferred as a sophomore, it was a lot easier. And I roomed with Asian-Americans. I really started to really embrace the experience at Brown. It's interesting because after spending three years there, I don't really remember so much about the classes I took, but I do remember the Thanksgiving dinners that I had at my roommate's place, going to New York for the first time, visiting my other roommate’s home in Chicago, and the friendships that I formed, and the families, their parents, their siblings that I got to know. Those are the memories that I have and that I still treasure, to this day.
Catherine: So it started out being quite competitive, but then as you were there longer, those friendships formed and I'm expecting you're still in touch with many of those people.
Rika: Yeah. That's really when I started to appreciate the life of being in a US university.
Catherine: So Rika let's turn the page. You go to law school and graduate, and then you pass the New Jersey bar, and that led you to Baker McKenzie. And then followed by another move, you jumped back into a law firm, which I think was Shearman and Sterling. So tell me about the experiences you had during your time working there.
Some of which I know were quite tough.
Rika: Shearman and Sterling was my first big law commercial law experience. And the thing about working for a big law firm, and what's challenging I think for mothers, is that it just simply takes up a lot of your time. And what was difficult for me at that period in my life was that I had two small boys.
And also a single mother, my late husband passed away when my second son was a month and a half. So just not being able to be with my boys physically was hard. And for instance, I used to hire babysitters for a discounted rate. It was one of those single mother sort of benefits from the Minato ward.
And I would have days where I would not see the babysitter because when the babysitter would come at three or four in the afternoon to pick up my boys from nursery or kindergarten, I wouldn't be at home. And when they leave, which is nine or 10 after they put the boys to bed, I would still be in the office, so I wouldn't see them.
So those days were just emotionally kind of hard simply because I really couldn't be with the boys as much as I would have wanted to. However, you know, I would though recommend that for any lawyer if given an opportunity to work at a reputable firm, to really take on the challenge, because you learn about just becoming a good lawyer.
And I wouldn't even say it's from your supervisors per se. I mean, you can learn from your supervisors, but you learn just as much, if not more, from your smart lawyer colleagues. So you sort of grind each other, you polish each other, you hone each other. And you become a better lawyer as a result.
Catherine: Wow. Can you give some examples then, of that grinding, polishing, honing in of skills? That sounds amazing. I'd love to hear some more.
Rika: Yeah. So for example, I had an officemate who was a Japanese qualified lawyer, she was a “bengoshi” a native Japanese person who went on to get the New York bar. And we worked together on a cartel case and we would put together a memo to the Department of Justice for whatever argument we were trying to make.
So I would put the first draft together and I'll flip it over to her, and she would look at it and move paragraphs around, delete sentences, add sentences, and then she'll flip it back to me. And we would do this a few times and every time our arguments would be improved, we would finesse or polish our memos, and at the end of the day we sort of come to a place where we're both happy with what we have. And what was most memorable to me, which I still remember, is at the end of the day, kind of a hard day, she would say “Ah tanoshikatta, meaning; yeah, it was really fun. Or she would say something like “Ii ichi nichi datta!”, oh, it was such a good day. And the thing is I was feeling the same way.
Catherine: Mm.
Rika: It was a good day, you know, the fact that we could sort of co-create this memo to come to a place where we're both happy with what we were saying in this memo was really quite a fun experience.
Catherine: Wow. Okay. Anything else?
Rika: I think having a good legal mindset is like having a good kitchen knife. The more you have the experience of working with good lawyers and just kind of having that sort of polishing and grinding experience, the sharper your knife gets.
So if you have the kitchen knife right, then you can cut vegetables, you can cut tomatoes, cucumbers, any meat, it feels pretty good. And it's kinda the same with having good legal skills.
The more you polish your legal skills, you actually become pretty confident about your kitchen knife, so that with any sort of legal issue that may come up, you know that you can analyse an issue and communicate that issue well.
Catherine: Wow. Right. I look forward to hearing more about that analogy of the knife Rika. That's incredible.
Catherine: You've got me thinking. And then there was a big step for you to move to PWC. And I know you spent quite a bit of time there. So tell us what you were doing then, what you liked about that role and perhaps what your learnings were there.
Rika: I spent six years at PWC, with the office of general counsel and looking back on the six years, it was more of that grinding and polishing of my legal skills. I supported the IT consulting business and I got involved in just a ton of transactions and reviewed a ton of agreements.
The two takeaways from my years at PWC were, one on things that you sort of like, you can only sort of really actually come to a realisation that you like it after you practice it.
And I discovered that I love being in the technology area. I think of technology as the hammer that fixes everything. And I think it's somewhat due to the fact that I'm a single mother too. I love efficiency because anything, even a zoom call or something, anything that sort of makes working more efficient. Actually it means that you can spend more time with your loved ones. So I just love being in, and learning about cutting edge technology. And as any good contract would be able to tell you, if you're given, let's say a non-disclosure agreement or services agreement, or license agreement, you should learn about what's being sold.
And so that's what I did for many of my agreements. I would just call the consultant and say, what are you selling? What are your concerns? And just through those experiences, I learned about what people in the market are interested in, what the cutting edge technology is that PWC is trying to sell. So that was just fun to discover that I really actually kind of liked being in technology.
And the second sort of takeaway is just the friendships that I formed with the mamas right? My mama tomadachi, my mama friends. And when you sort of move into an in-house counsel role, you tend to see more mothers because you get better work-life experience, so we're always kind of in the same sort of situation, right?
People talk about work-life balance. Well, actually for Japanese mothers, and I think this is true for all mothers, it's more about work child raising balance. I mean, we don't exactly have a life, it's not like we go out partying weekends. It's really just the struggle of balancing work and raising your kids.
And I remember the lunches for us were so precious because those were kind of the escape from what we were struggling with. The friendships that I formed there with the woman were meaningful to me. And still are very meaningful to me.
Catherine: So Rika, you left PWC, even though you loved it there. And we now kind of need a drum roll actually for this next piece, because it's so significant, this concurrent role that you have now. You joined Oracle in December, 2020 as Associate General Counsel. And in less than a year, you have become Corporate Executive Officer.
And not only that, you're now Representative Corporate Executive Officer. So this truly is phenomenal and so fast tracked. At a pace that's just really, really fast and you've really been elevated to these roles so massively and quickly. And I really think this is an amazing story for you to tell. And I know you mentioned before we were recording today that there were women in the organisation, in the head office in the States who you say pulled you up into these roles.
Tell me more.
Rika: So this last year has been a real adventure for me. So let me go into reflective mode and go back to my final days of PWC and explain to you what's sort of transpired over the last year in my observations of them. So during my final days at PWC, I was feeling like I kind of hit a plateau, like I was on cruise control mode.
I sort of looked around and I was a senior manager, but also senior manager for six years. And I realised, I sort of actually in fact counted the women around me who were like me, senior managers who were there for years and years and years, and weren't getting to the next level.
So I was sort of feeling like there was a bit of a glass ceiling there and then I sort of thought to myself, well, do I want to stay in this environment and just keep doing the same thing? Because I think I was taking on a broader view of; our lives are kind of short, especially our working lives are kind of short. 10 years is just going to go by in a blitz.
And I was 50 at the time and retirement age at PWC is 60. So I thought, do I want to be doing the same thing for another 10 years? And there was something in me that really wanted to make a stronger contribution to society. But I didn't really know what it was. So this is, you know what I mean by, I was kind of going through a mid-career crisis.
I was so confused. I decided to talk to my coach and mentor, partner, everything. So I ended up setting up an appointment, an hour-long appointment with him and just told him everything. And after that conversation, I was at peace with myself and I thought, okay, now there is one person in this organisation that knows everything I went through and I can move on.
I really felt like my season at PWC had ended. And it was really around that time that I got an invitation, just came in on LinkedIn, about this general counsel role. So I went through this interview process. And first I met my current boss in Michael who's JPAC’s General Counsel and a very nice man.
And he said, well, you know, you have to meet my boss, global general counsel, her name is Dorian Daley. And she is just as senior as you can get. And I met her and I just had this uplifting moment. It was such an uplifting hour. And I thought, man, if I could work with her, she is like the role model that I always aspire to be. How lucky would I be if I could just work in her group?
When I got this role, I was pinching myself. Not only was it a general counsel role, but it was in the field of technology, you know? And also I think for any person, men or women, we all need role models. And I thought, my gosh, I can work in the same organisation as my role model.
This is just so great. Honestly, I was feeling that way. Quite honestly I felt really fulfilled career-wise. All my adult life it seemed like I was gunning for the next big goal, but because I was feeling so fulfilled, I was more focused.
My energy just naturally wants to help other people, helping other people have fulfilling lives, happier lives. So in other words, I was more focused on making, using my voice, whatever influence that I may have, in making Oracle a better place, is what I was thinking.
And then, I was happy and fulfilled, and then my appointment as the Corporate Executive Officer in July came up and then the Representative Corporate executive Officer came up. And so there was like, like you said, there were woman that helped me, to pull me up to these ranks.
And for the Representative Corporate Executive Officer role, Kimberly, who is also a board member for Oracle, Japan, and American female lawyer. She really made a case for me and spoke with the board members before the August board meeting, to ensure that I get elected.
And also there's Dorian, who entrusted me, a senior manager at PWC formerly, with this general counsel position. It really is, for me, in my experience, the females. And for me, it was the female lawyers that entrusted me, that pulled me up to the position that I am today. So I kind of hope that I do the same, it's kind of like a paying it forward kind of a thing. I hope that I do the same for others.
Catherine: How does being a lawyer strengthen you and help you in this role? And I'd also love you to share with us about the significance of being a mother that is also a force for you behind this role.
Rika: So I think being a lawyer does help. Some people can be good lawyers straight out of law school, but that didn't happen to me.
I feel that my legal skills, my analytical skills, my communication skills, were polished over the years. I have over 20 years of experience in different law firms and companies. That's what I call a kitchen knife, right? It’s that once you gain the skill set to be a good lawyer, which is the analytical and communication skills, you can just use that.
And that becomes just such a useful tool anywhere that you go. And this is also true in a boardroom. The other thing about being a mother too, is that I think it's helped me just because I sympathise with other women who are reluctant to take on senior roles.
And I think what happens is, we kind of hit our forties, and there is this next position, and what happens in Japan, what I've heard is, that many women refuse to take on management roles, senior roles. And the reason is because they feel like this new position might ruin them, or they feel like if it doesn't work out, they're in their forties, they're in their fifties, it's hard for them to find another job. I think it really ultimately comes down to that they feel that taking on a new risk at that age, it may just take away time from their loved ones. I'm kind of sympathetic to that.
And I guess my message to people who are kind of at that level is, it's okay to be imperfect, and taking on a management role, an executive role, is not going to ruin your life. In fact, compared to my last job at PWC, I don't think my job is any harder.
It's different, but I don't think it's any harder. And I feel like I do have time, it's not just being physically with my boys, but I feel like there still is time that I could really think about my loved ones and think about their needs and have their needs met.
Catherine: Wow. Amazing. And I think a couple of things you've said there I wanted to pick up on is, the analogy of the knife. That is amazing. It got me thinking about how the knife itself can't do anything unless a person touches it or interacts with it in some way. So depending on how the human interacts with the knife, it could be used in a bad way for hurting others, but it can be used for the good things that you talked about, cutting up meat and vegetables.
So the point is that with the knife, having the other human side, the mother's side, bringing in empathy, the knife then can actually be a tool where a lawyer, for example, has got analytical skills and also a mother, makes an effective leader having both of those skills.
And then the second point you made was, people don't need to be perfect to rise up the ranks. That may be the first time I've ever heard anyone say this Rika. And I don't really know why people aren’t more vulnerable and talk about this. So encouraging people to do that so they can go higher is astronomical really, what you've just said.
Rika: One of the biggest compliments I recently received is from our “Shacho”, the CEO of Oracle. And he said, I don't want to be politically incorrect, but the image of working women during the Showa era was a woman who would not look after the family, is not a good wife, is not a good mother. Just devotes all her time at work. That's I think where the phrase “bari bari” came from. “Bari bari kyaria woman”. But then he said, well, look at Nakajima-san.
It was really just such a compliment because that's how I feel, is that we don't need to be perfect, we can rise up the ranks with who we are.
Catherine: Yeah, and that bari bari is going for it.
Isn't it going for it? Just driven. And is he saying to you that you are, of course you're driven because you're in this organisation, but you're also just taking it step by step. You're not perfect. You're working out things as you go up and you're looking to others to also have some inspiration for yourself.
You and I were both born in the Showa era, but you're talking about the working women in that particular part of Japanese history.
Rika: Yes, that's right. And I see my role, and I think the role of other Japanese leaders in Japan as well, is to change that image right?
Of the bari bari, career woman image of just women working in general. It is okay to be who we are. And we add value to an organisation. My mentor and role model Kathy Matsui, when I was struggling, when I first joined Oracle, because I was just speaking mostly with Japanese man and not feeling like I had a place at Oracle, or I wasn't sure whether I was adding value at Oracle.
She said, you were hired because you are different and use that to your advantage. And now I get what she means because we need people, especially at the top level. So now I finally get what people, they're always constantly thinking about diversity and inclusion.
I came to this place, my perspective or the experiences that I bring in, is enough, and that I add a different perspective to Oracle, that Oracle needs. I sort of noticed that in a boardroom, because when you're in a boardroom, and let's say there's nine people in a boardroom.
And I just actually talked about this in one of the panels. If that boardroom is filled with Japanese men with decades of sales experience, that's really bad for Oracle, because what happens is when you bring in similar people, they all think alike, and there's always this blind spot that people just don't notice.
But then I said, you know what, actually it's the same the other way around, right? If the boardroom was filled with someone like me, Japanese female lawyer, and they're all like me, that's also bad. So what you want in a boardroom is people that come from all different perspectives, and just clashing, and our ideas might clash, but that's okay. Because then we can make sure that there's no blind spots. You know what I mean? You're never going to have no blind spots, but we can minimise the blind spots and make the best decision for the company.
Catherine: So when you were elected in August, how did you feel? And were there any lessons that you learned after taking on this “daihyo”? This Representative Corporate Executive Officer position.
Rika: As I mentioned earlier, after taking on this General Counsel role, I was already quite fulfilled. And then this kind of fell in my lap a little bit. Especially this daihyo representative position, of course I was happy.
And actually the fact that my boys were happy and my father was so happy. Because when you get elected, your name pops up in this national newspaper called Nikkei. So he was just really happy to see my name on the paper, you know?
So I was really happy about that, but at the same time, I was kind of questioning myself, why is this happening to me? I really wasn't gunning for it. I'm achievement oriented, right? So it's like next goal, next goal.
But really this wasn't even one of my goals. It really just kind of happened to me and the answer in my mind was something like character, character matters. One observation that I had, after joining Oracle, so it was something that I was sort of feeling at the same time, is that the more senior up you go in an organization, people kind of evaluate you. People assume that you can do your job, cause age wise, you're sort of more senior anyway.
Then people start to look at who you are, like your character actually kind of matters. And it's just basic things that you teach your kids about, be kind to others, be respectful, you know, don't be so selfish, be more giving to others, you know, that kind of stuff.
And I really saw this difference because when I was in a more junior level, position at PWC or even at Shearman & Sterling, I mean, of course it helps to be a nice person, but really at the end of the day, if you could just do your job, if you had the technical skills, people appreciated that you were fine.
But what I realised is that in a more senior level, what you do every day matters and you get put under a microscope. And I actually started to pay more attention to my everyday behavior.
Catherine: Wow, what would you say then are the top skills or characteristics you need to be a corporate executive officer or a representative? What kinds of things do you think are really important as you're doing your role there?
Rika: I guess first, I mentioned this before, not to bring a political agenda into the boardroom, in other words, not to have an ego. So that's one. I think the other one is, the ability to see the big picture. And this is probably easier said than done, but in Japan you tend to see more followers than leaders.
And people tend to be more process oriented rather than big picture oriented. Often I explain to people in Oracle, US, for instance, it's sometimes they don't understand why Japanese people do things a certain way. And because through education in Japan, they're wired to become more follow the process, kind of thinking, and they miss the big picture because they're so focused on doing everything perfectly and following the processes.
So I would say that it's one to not have an ego. The second is to have the ability to see the big picture. And in my role, I think it's important to gain the trust of board members because by gaining the trust, you can have the board members open up to you. And then if the board members can open up to me, then I can communicate let's say what the “shacho” is saying and communicate that to people in Oracle, US and vice versa too.
So gaining the trust of other board members, I think, is also important.
Catherine: That's great. Thank you for those amazing tips.
So Rika, I know you are supervising a lawyer team, which is what you are doing as part of your work at Oracle. So tell us about how many team members you are looking after and how you work with them to help them become a team that's all working together really, really nicely, and collegiately. Tell us about how you do that, how you manage your time.
Rika: So my team is a team of seven and there is an admin person and a paralegal and four Japanese qualified bengoshi. And so I was kind of concerned going into my role about supervising a group of Japanese qualified attorneys.
And so I thought to myself, okay, how do I make this project work? And the project is my project of leading the legal and compliance department at Oracle. And one sort of message that resonated in me before going in, was what a PMO said. PMO is an expert project manager in one of the projects that I managed at PWC.
He said something like 90% of the success in a project depends on how well the stakeholders communicate. So I thought, okay, if I make sure that my team members are communicating well, then that must mean 90% of the time, I will succeed.
So I actually took that to heart. And what I did is, I set up one-on-one meetings with my team members, each and every week. And that I think was probably most effective in relation to gaining the trust of my team members and really sort of getting to know them.
And so in a sense, you know, cause I started doing COVID days, so I actually haven't spent that much time in the office, but I don't feel like I was disadvantaged in any way, because if I had to, let's say, okay, so I don't have water cooler moments here in the office because I'm not in the office, but I meet with you every week. It's really where I've gained the trust of my team members and I've noticed that, and I think this might be true more for Japan, but people don't really tell you.
I mean they're not going to Slack you and tell you what they're concerned about. It really only comes after spending time with them. It could be simple things like, are you vaccinated or talking about their families.
If you could just talk about everyday non-work stuff, it really actually doesn't matter in your one-on-one conversations that you have with them each week.
And you know, after a while it's not so much their background or it's not so much this big qualification that they have, they want to know that you have their back. It's really about communicating with them that you care about them and they understand that. And then you've gained their trust and then their skillset and their talents can shine, and you’re a stronger team that way, because they're not inhibited about showing what they have.
So I do think that communication and gaining their trust and really just drill this into them, you have their back, I have your back. I think it's the most important thing.
Catherine: Fantastic. Well, that's wonderful Rika. Thank you so much. I'm sure the team are going to be listening to you today and also really love working with you.
And I really don't think it mattered that you were a New York lawyer and these were bengoshi because it also gives a different perspective. You are different, and you're bringing that difference through, from being a New York trained lawyer. So it's good for them. People learn from them as well, as a bengoshi.
Rika: It is, it is. See, that's why I don't really like to consider myself, I mean, certainly in an org chart I’m higher than them, but I like to see myself more as a part of the team, because we all bring in different skill sets and I just happen to bring in a skill set that's different from you. And that I think goes back to my imperfection thing.
It's okay to be imperfect. If you’re given 10 things to do and you feel like you only did maybe two or three things, that's okay. Because we work as a team, let's have your skillset, let's have your talent shine, because at the end of the day it's the team's contribution that matters.
Catherine: Fabulous. Well done Rika.
I'm going to switch gears now and talk about your daily routine. What about your beginning and end of the day and some of your hobbies and interests. I know you've got music and song in there.
Rika: I just love musicals. In fact, I just went to New York for five days by myself to watch a musical, it was actually a Tina Turner musical. I actually went because this woman called Aisha Jawando who is actually starring in the musical, I discovered that her last day was October 31st and I really, really wanted to watch her perform.
So I was actually there for five days and it was the most uplifting trip that I ever had. Even in a musical, like how she just gives everything to you, and as an audience you just feel like you want to give everything back to her. There's a sense of professionalism that you feel from her that really inspires you. It's almost like listening to great classical music.
Catherine: And you like singing yourself as well, right?
Rika: Yeah, I do, yeah.
Catherine: I heard from someone that you also do yoga and a few other little things there.
Rika: Well, I love yoga and I think it's one of those daily habits. I mean, it gives me time to stretch and it gives me time to meditate.
Catherine: Well, thank you so much, Rika. We're now heading into the final super six, which is the quick fire round of six questions I love to ask every guest as we wind up the interview. If I was to give you a million yen in cash, where in Japan would you spend it, your favorite store or a place you'd like to go, or it could be a charity or social cause?
Rika: I love this inn called Hoshinoya in Japan and they have a few, they have one in Karuizawa, they have one in Kyoto and they have one in Yamanashi. And what I would love to do is to spend, what I call my three T's, my two boys, they all start with a T. So spend one place Karuizawa Hoshinoya with my older son, maybe Hoshinoya Kyoto with my younger son, and Hoshinoya Yamanashi with my boyfriend.
So that's what I would love to do is to just spend time at the Hoshinoyas and just spend a million yen there.
Catherine: Have you got a book that you have been reading or a podcast that you're listening to, that you would like to recommend?
Rika: Yeah, so I just finished listening to an Audible of a book called Happiness Becomes You, it's by Tina Turner.
And it was just a really interesting reflection of her and her Buddhist beliefs. So I would recommend that.
Catherine: Sounds great. Happiness becomes you, lovely. And she's an amazing person, Tina Turner. Goodness. And I was going to ask you, is there a famous person or celebrity you would love to meet or have met? Perhaps it is THE Tina Turner. Or is it someone else?
Rika: It is the Tina Turner and it is Aisha Jawando who played Tina Turner, in the Tina Turner musical. I would love to meet both of them.
Catherine: What's on your bedside cabinet beside you?
Rika: I'm actually reading a book by the CEO of Nitori, the furniture store over here, and it is hilarious.
I love that. And he's just so open about his vulnerabilities and his shortcomings. And I just, it's funny, I like it cause it's funny, but I also love the fact that he's just a leader who is just open about his shortcomings.
Catherine: I’ll have to put that one down on my booklist. Rika, what’s one thing about you that others don't know?
Rika: Oh, well I would love to star in a musical one day.
Catherine: Yes. Oh my goodness. You could be the next Asian person playing Tina Turner.
Rika: I would love to be in a musical. I should have started on that earlier.
Catherine: No, it's never too late. Remember your own philosophy. Well, thank you so much Rika for sharing your story today, telling us about your amazing career and the fantastic board role you've got now and sharing your gems of advice. That was so great to connect with you in this way. Thank you so much.
And so how can people connect with you?
Can they do that on LinkedIn?
Rika: Sure. Yeah. I have a LinkedIn page. I think that's the best place to reach me.
Catherine: So anyone who's interested in connecting and learning more from you is welcome to reach out to you?
Rika: Yeah, sure. Of course. Yeah. I would love to connect.
Catherine: Thank you so much. I'd love to finish up there. We've had a fantastic conversation about your career, your modeling for lawyers and for people, your communication skills, how you're showing up on the board.
And you're just showing us that there's really not one single way to be a lawyer, and that you can actually reach up to the highest pinnacles of your career and do a dream job. And so for my listeners, please do like this episode and subscribe to Lawyer on Air and do also drop us a review as that really helps Lawyer on Air be seen and heard by many people.
And you can also go over to my web page and leave me a voicemail telling me what you thought about the episode. So please do go ahead. Share the episode with someone you think will enjoy listening to it and be inspired to be a lawyer extraordinaire. Thank you so much.
Rika: Thank you so much for having me, Catherine,
Catherine: And that's all for now. See you on the next episode. Cheers, kampai and bye for now.
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