Boosting your legal career in Japan through your guiding principles with Lexi Takamatsu
A full transcript follows.
Lexi Takamatsu had just sat down for the very first time in her new home in the US, opened her laptop to find an email which would change the trajectory of her life again. Lexi shares how by finding what she likes about her legal practice and focusing on those areas, opportunities have come to her that she never imagined.
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In this episode you’ll hear:
How Lexi came to be a lawyer after a foray into insurance
The similarities between the law and Japanese language
The email that upended her carefully laid plans
Lexi’s transition from US law firm to Japanese law firm
How Lexi is breaking new ground in creating an international litigation team in a Japanese law firm
Her favourite book and other fun facts
About Lexi
Lexi is an international disputes specialist, who has represented companies in U.S. domestic and international litigation and arbitration, including commercial disputes, intellectual property disputes, and corporate governance disputes. She is also experienced in internal investigations and compliance, and was seconded to a large Japanese company to assist with a major internal compliance and white collar investigation.
Lexi attained her BA from University of Southern California 2008, and JD from U.C. Berkeley, School of Law in 2015. She was admitted in California in the same year (2015and is admitted as a registered foreign lawyer in Japan as of 2021 and a member of the Daini Tokyo Bar Association
In 2015, Lexi completed a one-year clerkship (2015-2016) for a U.S. Federal District Court Judge in the Central District of California, assisting the Judge in drafting opinions for the civil litigation cases on her docket.
In 2016 Lexi joined the U.S. law firm, Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP in Los Angeles, California. After 2 years with Skadden Lexi joined the disputes department of Morrison & Foerster’s Tokyo office where she was from 2018 to late 2020. At MoFo she was in the disputes department working on cross-border intellectual property and contract-based disputes.
Lexi joined Mori Hamada in September 2020, she is working to expand Mori Hamada’s international arbitration practice, while also assisting in various disputes and white collar investigations. Lexi is a fluent speaker of Japanese and also reads and writes in Japanese having received her JLPT N1 certification in 2018.
Connect with Lexi
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexi-takamatsu-a423a339/
Links
Burnout by Emily Nagoski https://www.amazon.co.jp/Burnout-Secret-Unlocking-Stress-Cycle/dp/1984818325
Connect with Catherine
Linked In https://www.linkedin.com/in/oconnellcatherine/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawyeronair
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/catherine.oconnell.148
Twitter: https://twitter.com/oconnelllawyer
Transcript
Catherine: Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode in season three of Lawyer on Air. I'm the host of the show, Catherine O'Connell. Today I am joined by Lexi Takamatsu. Lexi is a foreign lawyer at Mori Hamada & Matsumoto in Tokyo.
Mori Hamada is in the top four of Japanese law firms. It's a marriage of two firms that came together in 2002. Mori Sogo was established in 1971 and Hamada & Matsumoto established in 1975.
They have offices all over the place in Asia; Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore, Bangkok, Yangon, Jakarta, Hanoi, Vietnam. And domestically, they also have offices in Fukuoka, Osaka, Nagoya and Takamatsu. Yes, Takamatsu does sound familiar. It is a city in Japan and also Lexi's surname. Lexi is an international disputes specialist who has represented companies in domestic and international litigation and arbitration, including commercial disputes, intellectual property disputes, and corporate governance disputes.
Lexi attained her BA from the University of Southern California in 2008, and got her JD from UC Berkeley school of law in 2015. She was admitted to California in the California bar in the same year in 2015, and is a registered foreign lawyer in Japan as of 2021, and a member of the Dinae Tokyo bar association.
Well, after qualifying as an attorney in 2015, Lexi completed a one-year clerkship with a US federal district court judge in the central district of California, assisting the judge in drafting opinions for the civil litigation cases on her docket. Then in 2016, Lexi joined the U S law firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP in Los Angeles, California.
There she handled business litigation and arbitration matters on a variety of subjects, such as contract disputes, class actions, white collar defense and investigation, corporate governance and partnership disputes and securities litigation. After two years with Skadden, Lexi joined the disputes department of Morrison & Foerster’s Tokyo office, where she was from 2018 to late 2020. At MoFo she was in the disputes department working on cross border intellectual property and contract based disputes. During that time at MoFo, Lexi was also seconded to a large Japanese company for eight months to assist with the compliance department and a major internal fraud investigation.
Lexi joined Mori Hamada in September, 2020, which was at the height of this pandemic. And, well, I know that Lexi is actually a fluent speaker of Japanese and she reads and writes very well. She attained the Japanese language proficiency test top level N1 certification in 2018. And I have heard that she is one of the very few, if not the only US litigator in Japan who is fluent in Japanese, Lexi can correct me on that.
Well, there we have it, a complete bio of Lexi before we get started into our conversation. And yes, you can tell she's a lawyer extraordinaire as I love to call my guests. And I'm so pleased Lexi, to bring you onto the show today. Welcome.
Lexi: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Catherine: Well, it's so great to have you. Today we're going to talk about your career path, influences along your journey, how you came to Japan, your work and life in Japan, and I'd really love you, if you can, to talk about a few tips and ideas for the next generation of associates who are coming up the ranks behind you, how does all that sound?
Lexi: That sounds great.
Catherine: All right. Well, today we are talking online and I hope we get to meet up in person soon. But if we did that, where would we be? Do you have a favourite wine bar or cafe or restaurant you love to go to?
And what would be your choice of the menu?
Lexi: Well, preferably somewhere kind of divey. I like the divey scene in Tokyo. And if in this hypothetical meeting, if social distancing is off the table, a little bit crowded with some nice hubbub is also nice. And so I like the neighbourhoods, for example, of Koenji in Tokyo. It has kind of a fun retro vibe.
And the reason I'm not naming anywhere specific is because I like exploring new places. So I rarely go to the same place more than once. But that's probably what we would be doing. And I'd probably be drinking a beer or a umeboshi sour.
Catherine: Oh,
Lexi: Something like that. Yeah,
Catherine: Right. yeah, I liked that idea of actually having not one place that you call home, but lots of different places that you frequent. I mean, we could go to a different bar every day in Tokyo and you'd never get to all of them. Right? In 365 days. It's amazing.
Lexi: Yeah. Not even close, I don't think.
Catherine: Wow. So umeboshi is what? I know what it is, but what do you describe it as?
Lexi: I think in English it's usually described as a pickled plum, but it's not at all what that sounds like. It's very salty, and it's not your usual Western plum. It's like a smaller plum that has been pickled in a very salty brine. And I know this sounds like it would be horrible in an alcoholic drink, but I have come to really like it, and yeah, it's my favourite cocktail here.
Catherine: Wow. It's not sweet. Right? It's quite, it's just sort of, not sour, but it's also just not sweet.
Lexi: Yeah, it's a little salty, it's quite salty and a little sour. So then to make the cocktail, they add some soju and sparkling water with it. And so you kind of take the chopstick or whatever, and mashup the umeboshi to make the whole thing a little salty and sour.
Catherine: Right. So it looks a little cloudy as well. It's not a clear drink. Okay, I don't drink that so much, but I'm game to try it when we go somewhere, maybe in Koenji, and try it out.
Lexi: Yeah, It's quite an acquired taste. So if you don't like it I’ll finish yours.
Catherine: Alright if I don't like it I'll swap to wine probably or beer with you.
Right. So I do remember actually, talking of beers, we did meet together. First it was online with your colleague, Daisuke Yoshida, who I've also known for years, who's a litigation partner at MoFo and he got us together over LinkedIn first. I think that's back perhaps in September, 2020 after you've just joined Mori Hamada.
Isn't that right?
Lexi: Sounds right. Yeah, that sounds right.
Catherine: That's almost a year and a half ago. Unbelievable.
Lexi: Yeah.
Catherine: You know, this jolly pandemic has stopped a lot of things, but from now we're all trying to get back to usual days. So it sounds good. Yeah, well, I mean, we can get right in now. I think that one of the first questions I always ask people, Lexi, is what you wanted to be when you were a child.
Can you recall way back then what your first sort of thoughts were around that?
Lexi: Well, there's a serious thing that I want it to be. And then there's a not very serious thing that I wanted to be. I love music. So one of the, this is the serious side believe it or not, but one of the serious things that I wanted to be is I would love to be a musical theatre actress, because I love to sing and I love musicals.
So I, you know, always sing musical songs around the house, and even through high school that's still what I wanted to be when I grew up. But, you know, there are a lot of things about that industry that I think wouldn't really fit well with my personality. So I ended up going with something completely different.
And then the less serious thing that I wanted to be is when I was in elementary school, I believe I was influenced by the movie Muppet Treasure Island, but I very much wanted to be a pirate because I thought it would be a whole lot of fun to just go travel around the world, on a boat with my buddies.
I didn't really know about the actual dark side of piracy. I just kind of thought it'd be fun to ride around on a boat. And I think of the two, probably pirate is closer to what I ended up doing and that I am, you know, halfway around the world and with my buddies.
Catherine: With your buddies and helping people, how exciting. I mean, you could still do, have you done things with the musical theatre side of the action that you wanted to do? Have you done that in the past at all, along your way?
Lexi: In high school I was in a lot of musicals. And then, there was a time after I graduated from college before I went to law school where I was debating between continuing to study voice and to go to law school. And so during that time I was performing in a lot of choirs and mostly doing opera type vocal instruction. And now, I do take voice lessons as a hobby and I love that karaoke is still a thing here, that it's available here.
Catherine: It's available. Yeah.
It's available. Not all of us do it, but I'm so glad you do. Wow. Someone's doing it on my behalf. Good.
Lexi: I love karaoke so much. I even go by myself to practice new songs.
Catherine: That is so good. I'd love you to sing your way through the podcast actually, but there we go. That is really exciting. I'm so glad that you've got that passion that you're still following so that you haven't just left it behind as the thing that was serious, you've kept it on as a hobby.
That is super. And then I was going to ask you then when it did become that point where you thought, well, I do want to do law. So when was that? How did that come about?
Lexi: I definitely was not one of those people that always thought they wanted to be a lawyer. I have some anxiety about speaking in front of large groups of people. And it's never really been my thing. You know, there was always the kid in high school that you knew he was going to be a lawyer, or she was going to be a lawyer, and I was never that person necessarily.
But once I graduated from college and the first job I had was as an insurance investigator at a workers' compensation insurance company, and starting with that job, every job that I had along the way somehow I would just kind of gravitate towards the legal department and the legal field.
And at the insurance company it was particularly noticeable because the in-house attorney kind of took me under her wing and would take me to hearings with her and would just have me do a lot of the legal stuff over time. So when I quit that job, I had to move was the reason that I was quitting.
So they said, you know, you can try to find another insurance job wherever you're going. But like, we really think you'd probably like being a lawyer. And I was like, nah, that's not me. I've seen Suits. That's not right. I can't do that. But, you know, kind of wherever I went, I ended up really enjoying the legal thinking side and the legal writing side.
And so eventually I got to the point where I was like, okay, okay, I see the signs now. I understand that Suits is not actually what lawyers do anyway. Maybe I'll give this a try. So that's when I decided to just go ahead and go to law school.
Catherine: Oh right. Cause one of my questions I actually had was, did those TV shows about lawyers sway you? So there we go, no.
Because hardly any of that is real, right? I mean, maybe they do a little bit of law, but all the cases come to court very quickly, which doesn't happen in reality. They're all wearing glamorous clothes and never seem to get sweaty. And that is not true. They're always looking beautiful.
Oh, wow. That's amazing. So when did, when was that? Because I know you got your JD in 2015. So when did you start then going into law school?
Lexi: So I started in 2012.
Catherine: Right.
Lexi: And so there was about a four year period or so where I was working in an insurance company and at a startup and just kind of trying to find what I wanted to do through trial and error. I guess I found it. By the time I got to law school, I was so sure that I really, that I liked, you know, I'd even taken some classes at the local community college for paralegals.
Catherine: Oh.
Lexi: They were kind of an introduction to how to read cases and how to do legal memo writing and that sort of thing. And it's not too far off from what, you know, junior associates do anyway. But it was a great experience to kind of see what the legal thinking side is like, because there's not really any way to know if you like that or not, unless you've been exposed to it, I think.
Catherine: Exactly. How did that all, you know, now looking back or at the time, did you think it was something that you should have been doing at that time? It fitted you, if you can understand what I'm trying to get at.
Lexi: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, none of it was my calling that's for sure. But I do think that it helped me figure out where I should be going. And in that sense, it was really valuable to me. By the time I got to law school, I was so sure that was what I liked to do. You know, law school is difficult enough, just the content of it.
But if you're also kind of questioning yourself and like, what do I want to do? Do I want to do litigation or corporate work, then I think that just adds even more stress to it. So I was fortunate to have taken the time to have worked through all of that so that by the time I came to law school, I was like, no, I like litigation. I want to be a lawyer. I'm sure that this is what I want to do. So I'm glad I did take that time, even though none of those things was really my calling.
Catherine: I think that's important, right? To know that you have that time and that it's okay. You don't have to go straight off and do something if you're not so sure. And it wasn't a calling for you to do either of those serious, non-serious things. Right?
So there are different types of litigation, aren't there? So how did you know what kind of litigation you wanted to do, or how did you get into what you are doing now? Because after getting your JD, you started off as a judge's clerk. So what made you, or helped you to decide what kind of litigation was the path that you should be taking?
Lexi: I think there are a lot of people that go in with a particular passion about a subject area. I was not one of those people. The thing that I really like about litigation is taking apart a fire hose of facts that the witnesses are telling you, that the client is telling you, that you're reading from documents, and kind of picking out the ones that seem helpful and weaving them into a story.
And even at the insurance company, we’d talk to the injured workers and hear their story, and then kind of pick out the facts and put them in buckets of, oh, this is going to be this kind of claim, or this is a fraud red flag or something like that. So even from that point, that process of pulling things out and then putting it together into a story, that's been something that really resonates with my brain, I guess.
And, so as long as I get to do that. And then the other side of it is legal writing, writing the story, but also it's not just telling a story in like a fictional sense. It's in a way that's fun to read. It's also the logic of getting to the answer that you think is right in a way that someone can follow your logic through all the steps.
And it's a perfect cross of right brain and left brain to me. So as long as I get to have all of that, it doesn't really matter to me if the subject matter itself is environmental law, or tech law, it kind of adapts itself to any type of litigation.
Catherine: Right. How interesting. Wow. And then for that particular first job that you had with the judge, how did that come up? I mean, are those kinds of roles advertised, or do you meet someone and they introduce you to it? What happened there?
Lexi: Yeah. So at the law school, they really promote people going to work for judges. It's called a clerkship in the U S, so the law schools have this whole, they have a counselor actually that is specifically designated to help people find clerkships. And so there was guidance on that, in that sense.
But they are really hard to get, especially if you're trying to get one in one of the popular jurisdictions, which is California and New York. And to be honest, I don't really know how I got lucky enough to get one, but I just sent my application out to a million places. And this was a judge that picked me up, and she is notorious for being a very difficult judge to clerk for, because she's very meticulous.
She looks at everything from every angle, I guess I should say. And because of that, her orders are really, really long. And she teaches you how to look at everything from every angle as well, but it's a tough learning curve and she was not shy about explaining that to me in the interview.
Catherine: Mm.
Lexi: And I said, okay, I mean it sounds like a challenge, but if I'm going to be doing something, I might as well be getting the most out of it possible. And it sounds like she would be a person that I could learn the most from.
Catherine: Amazing.
Lexi: I know of at least a couple people that were kind of scared off by the ‘I'm a tough judge to clerk for’ speech.
So that could have been part of why she chose me because I was basically like I'm game. Okay.
Catherine: You were up for it. Right? Whereas others, it probably showed on their face right in front of her.
Lexi: Maybe. Yeah.
Catherine: You know, saying that and they'd be like uhhh, but at least she told people very frankly, it wasn't like afterwards after you joined, she was tough. She was very genuine and authentic in that interview. Wow. Amazing.
And what happens, are you sitting in court? Are you in chambers? How does that look like, your average day or week? What does it look like for that kind of role?
Lexi: So she had civil calendar, which is where she goes to court and hears motions and other things. She had it once a week on Fridays. So on that day, we would be in the court listening to the parties, give their oral advocacy and taking notes if we needed to change anything that was in the draft order.
But the other four days a week, we would be in chambers and we'd split up her docket. And I was odd case numbers.
Catherine: Yeah.
Lexi: And we just, we’d do legal research and try to figure out what all the right answers were and then write a draft for her. And then she would tell us the ways in which we were wrong.
And then we’d kind of go through a cycle of getting comments back and rewriting. And that was a lot of reading and writing and researching and that kind of thing, but then also getting exposure to oral advocacy. And there was one trial that I sat through.
Catherine: That would have shown you a lot then. Right?
Lexi: Yeah, Yeah.
Catherine: It would have been quite revealing.
Lexi: Yeah.
Catherine: Oh, wow. That's amazing. And so did that then finish at the end of the internship, was there a trigger then to go on? You joined a firm after that, Skadden.
Lexi: Yeah, clerkships in general in the U S are one year or two years. Some people come back after they've been a lawyer for a while and have more permanent clerkships, but for the most part, people rotate in and out after a year or two.
Catherine: Right. And so you then in 2016, you joined Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, one of the longer named law firms. What then made you go into that firm?
Lexi: So I had already interviewed with them prior to my second year of law school and kind of decided at that point, I think it was the people that I met at onsite interviews, and the kind of work that they were doing sounded interesting to me.
I actually originally interviewed at the Palo Alto office and I had liked the size of that office. I liked that it was an exporter of work, is kind of how it was put to me. It was an office that was bringing in so much work that the associates there couldn't handle it all. So they had to export it to other offices and that was a good place to be because it means that you get to pick off the best work, before you give them the rest of the other offices.
So all of that seemed like a good idea to me. But when I finished my clerkship in LA, I'd already kind of started setting down roots in LA and little did I know that they would be torn up again a couple of years later, but I kind of wanted to stay where I was at instead of moving all around, for a while.
So I went to the Los Angeles office instead where I didn't know anyone and kind of had to start over, but it was a great experience there as well.
Catherine: What do you learn then from being in a big law firm? You know, you're handling business litigation and arbitration matters. What stands out then for you once you join that firm, what were your learnings?
Lexi: I learned a lot from different people there. And you get to know the different personalities you work with. And take little bits of their skillset and their attitudes towards work with you I think, no matter where you go after that.
There were a couple things that I learned there that I still think to myself from time to time. And, one is, you know, I can be kind of timid when I'm in a situation that I'm not used to, or when there are other people, particularly when there were other people with very forceful personalities.
And I had one very perceptive, he was a counsel at the time that I was working for them, he's a partner now. And he got to know the look on my face when I was bothered by something.
Catherine: Ah.
Lexi: And so sometimes he would even stop meetings and he would say, okay, Lexi, we pay you to actually say what you're thinking, so don't just keep it to yourself.
And if someone tried to interrupt he would say, Lexi's usually right so let's hear what she has to say first, before we talk over her. And it was so, you know, they talk about how women have a hard time inserting their opinions in meetings because of men talking over them, or because they've been raised not to speak up in situations like that.
And you hear about different ways that men can help even that balance within a law firm setting. And gosh, he was just a great example of that. Both teaching me, say what you were thinking, and giving me the affirmation that I'm usually right
Catherine: Yeah.
Lexi: And at the same time teaching others, okay now it's time to be quiet, male colleagues. So yeah, that was a great example.
Catherine: Lexi has something to say. That's amazing. Isn't it? It's a seat at the table, but it's also the voice at the table. It's not just the seat and sitting there, they're calling you out and saying Lexi's usually right. That's phenomenal. Isn't it?
Lexi: Yeah. I don't know how true it is but I'm glad he thought so.
Catherine: They would hardly say that if it wasn't true.
But then that concentration for most of your time in that, I guess, PQE, you're really at first year, right?
Not after, I'm not talking about the judging expedition that you had, but into the law firm, it's your first time in a law firm, isn't it? So are you concentrating then on deepening your network, learning as much, sponging as much as you can off other people, or deepening your practical experience? What sorts of things are going on there and should people be concentrating on, in that first year?
Lexi: Yeah, I guess for me, I've moved around quite a bit as you explained in your introduction. And so I would say the first year or so of any new place that I've been has been about making sure that I'm doing good work that I know that I'm capable of. Because getting a good internal reputation, I think, is the first, most important step when you start anywhere.
And so the first year that I was at the law firm, I was really concentrating on, okay, I've now spent a year doing legal research and writing for this judge. So I know that that is something that I have trained and put in time and have gotten better at, so I'm going to make sure that the work product that I show at this new law firm reflects that.
And also trying to get that work in the first place so that I can demonstrate the writing skills that I had developed. And then starting from the second year, once I had people that I trusted to helped me grow, and to be mentors to me, starting in about the second year, that's when I was going out on limbs a bit more and doing things like depositions and things that require speaking in front of people, that I needed to get a little bit out of my shell in order to do.
Yeah, I think by that point people knew that I had a certain work ethic and they knew that I could think well, and that I could write well. And so if I was a little weak on a certain point, or if I seemed a little nervous about something, it wasn't that I was not capable at all.
It was like, okay, there's a weak point where we can improve upon.
Catherine: Right. So you're getting your solid foundations there with that work ethic being really spot on and having that good internal reputation, because you're showing that you're really good and capable with the work that you were given to do. Then moving on from there to try and expand, and move out of your shell, get a little bit more detailed and precise, and do different things with the work that you'd already built the solid foundation on.
Lexi: Yeah, yeah.
Catherine: Right. So you were there for a couple of years, and then I think you're jumping over to Japan after that, right?
Lexi: Yeah. Yeah. So it was one of those things where, I told you that I took a long time to figure out that I liked litigation, but then I knew that I liked it. Right? So the same thing happened with me in Japan, which is I started taking Japanese when I started law school, or maybe a little before that on my own.
But then I kind of dipped my toe in the water and I said, okay, I'll study abroad. So I studied abroad for six months at Waseda University in Tokyo. And then I thought, okay, I like that a lot. I want to live here. And so I'd come back whenever I could over breaks. But the more that I learned Japanese and the more that I spent time in Japan, the more I knew that, okay, yes, that has to be part of the equation too.
And I knew it as, as strongly as I knew that I liked litigation and I wasn't willing to give up one or the other. Which people generally told me was impossible, but I just kind of knew that if I kept developing both my Japanese language skills and also my litigation skills, that something would happen somehow.
And then it did, it happened. The irony is it happened right after I bought a house in LA. I literally sat down, finally had all my furniture moved in. The first time opening my laptop at my desk in my new house, and what is sitting there in my inbox, but an email from a recruiter saying, hey, do you want to come to litigation in Japan?
Catherine: Oh, no. Well, yes but no. Oh my goodness!
Lexi: Yeah, exactly.
Catherine: Oh, wow. What did you do at that point? Did you just freak or think this is it? Oh my goodness. There must have been so many things bouncing around your head right then.
Lexi: Yeah. I mean, that was really my dreams coming true right there. So I was excited about it. There was the stress and the pull of like, oh my gosh, you just bought a house, what are you going to do? Are you going to be able to bring your cats? What are you even thinking?
Catherine: It's funny how our brain goes there, doesn't it, into all the details that at the end of the day don't even matter. But at the time it was the house, the cats, you can do all that, but it sort of compounds into your brain at one point. You think, how am I going to do it? But it actually all works out. Is that what happened then?
Lexi: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Catherine: So how long from that email until you actually moved then?
Lexi: So I think it was about six months by the time I interviewed, and got a visa, and got over there, found renters for my house.
Catherine: There you go.
Lexi: Figured it all out. Yeah.
Catherine: Worked out how to bring your cats?
Lexi: Oh yeah, that was a non-negotiable part.
Catherine: Have you got two?
Lexi: I do. Yeah. I have two. A brother and sister and they flew over probably better class than I did.
They flew over first class because I want it to be as safe as possible and getting them over here. But there's an animal first class. It's different than human first class.
Catherine: Oh, I didn't know that. That's interesting.
Lexi: Yeah. I say first-class, it just means that they have a special cabin under the plane that's temperature controlled and away from all the luggage.
And it's dark because cats get scared if they see new surroundings. So I just trained them to sleep in a big, big crate and they just drop them into the aeroplane. So they just thought that they went to sleep and it was a bit noisy. And then they woke up and all their stuff was there.
Catherine: Wow, you did the training beforehand. That's really good. Isn't it like anything else, that also kitty cats need their training. Wow. That's incredible, everything fell into place, but I do want to jump back a little bit there, that Japanese decision to study Japanese. What triggered that way back at the beginning, when you were doing law school?
Lexi: So I had come to Japan in 2010 just on vacation, and just fell in love with it. Yeah. I fell in love with it and loved the vibe. It does sound kind of out there, but I really liked the vibe, but I knew that there was so much that I wasn't seeing because I didn't speak the language. And there was so much I couldn't access because I didn't speak the language.
So I came back from that thinking, oh, I want to study Japanese, but it's very hard, I think, without some structure to really get that far. And so when I went to law school, I thought, okay, now I'm at a university. They have classes. They train people from the start to fluency to be able to speak Japanese.
At least, if you're a Japanese major as an undergrad. So I thought, this is my chance. I wonder how I can use those resources at the school to learn Japanese. And so I started taking Japanese in the undergrad department at the same time that I was in law school.
And I was right. It was really helpful to have a structure. I don't think it's impossible otherwise, but it really helped me to have a curriculum guiding my learning.
Catherine: Yeah.
I think you're bang on though with that, not able to see things in Japan if you don't have the language, and access to things because of having language. And I know in myself, that's what I've got, but I hadn't heard it quite put that way, but I think that's absolutely right. It just opens up a whole lot of doors in Japan.
And I think you can be here and not have Japanese, but having it is just a completely different world. And then you went on and obviously you, recently I should say, 2018 is still recent I think. But you did get to the top of the writing, listening test that they have in Japan, the N1.
Lexi: Oh yeah.
Catherine: Yeah. Right. So you just kept going at it. And was it like, you talked about a fire hose of facts before, did you find that Japanese was like that, gushing at you? Or did you see it in a different way to how you see the law.
Lexi: Hm. That's a really interesting question.
Catherine: I'm thinking of the answer myself for myself, as I'm asking you.
Lexi: I did have to kind of break down, especially once classes at Berkeley ended and I continued my studies, I had to break down what all the different components of learning a language are, and give an adequate amount of attention to each. And I think one thing that a lot of people struggle with is listening and speaking, because it is just in real time, a lot of information flooding at you, especially listening and just being able to parse even where the breaks between words are, or to hear words that you have seen written.
If you saw it written, maybe you'd be fine, but to hear it when it's just a stream of sound coming at you. I had to practise at that specific thing even. So in that sense I guess it is like a fire hose of information. I also think there's a certain, I really like logic puzzles.
That was my favourite part of the L set. Yes, I'm, I'm nerdy enough to have a favourite part of the LSAT, but I really liked that part. Just to put context on that, in the US LSAT is the test to go to law school.
And they have a section that's just like, you get a bunch of requirements, like there are eight people sitting at a dinner table and one of them is wearing pink. And one of them's name is Susan. And one of them doesn't like anchovies. And the one who likes anchovies doesn't want to sit next to the one that's allergic to peanuts and they just give you all this information.
And somehow you're supposed to put it all together and figure out who's sitting where, and to me, that's the same process as both, taking apart the facts that are coming at you like a fire hose and putting them into buckets. And then weaving them into a story. It's kind of similar logic.
And I think speaking a language that has a completely different sentence syntax, then your home language is also a bit of a logic puzzle in that you have this thought or this feeling or this concept that you want to convey, and you have to kind of take that and put it into the right logic for the resulting sentence to make sense to the listener.
So I guess that's kind of where it all comes together.
Catherine: Yeah. I love how you put that. And I think Japanese language is also quite precise, like most of the law is, but there's also that vagueness and indirectness of Japanese language, which I think that grey area is what we also find in the law. And that's what we work on. And the grey area is where you get a lot of your information by the things that perhaps people don’t say, or the lingering sentence and things like that.
So there are some similarities there. Very interesting. So you jumped on over to Japan and you started to join a different firm here, right?
Lexi: Yes. That's when I went to MoFo.
Catherine: Yeah. And so what was that like coming to work in Japan compared to how you'd been here for study and you'd been here for pleasure, you know, travelling around? What was it like then to come into a law firm? Was it quite different to doing work in the US, even though it's a US firm, was it quite different?
Lexi: Yeah, I think there are certainly things, it's small things, but you definitely learn new things about the culture, the more different contexts you are in when you're exposed to that culture. So even just small things. For some reason, this is the only thing that's coming to mind immediately.
But, you know, in Japan they print things on basically double sized paper and then fold them. And so none of the office supplies were exactly what I expected them to be. Or the relationship with your secretary is slightly different than it is in the US, and interpersonal stuff is slightly different. Clients like to meet face to face more here.
I'm kind of guessing that next you're going to ask me how different it is working for Japanese firms. So I kind of want to save some of the contrast for that conversation.
Catherine: Yeah, I will be asking you that. I think it's very interesting, I mean, how about when you joined, were there people who took you under their wing? I know MoFo's very, seems to be a firm that embraces people and brings you in, and maybe makes you feel at home pretty much straight away.
But how did that sort of happen with all the colleagues, the new people that you were meeting here?
Lexi: It's kind of a microcosm of the expat culture here in general, which is a bunch of expats come to this country and don't know anyone. And so it's like, oh, instant friends and even more so if you're all working at the same law firm and all know the same people are all dealing with the same challenges at work.
So yeah, it is like there's already a community there that's waiting to welcome you at MoFo. And that tends to take place mostly amongst the associates, but I found some really wonderful mentors, that are still mentors to me today at MoFo, in the partners as well. So yeah, it was a great experience to be there.
And I learned a lot there as well.
Catherine: There seems to be a massive alum for MoFo. And I think about even the latest, newest Supreme court judge, she's from MoFo originally. So that must feel really part of it. You really do feel part of a family or part of a community I think, when you join a firm like them.
Well, but you didn't stay there because you did go over to where you are now, which is Mori Hamada. And you went through and started to work with them in September, 2020. So was there something different there that Mori Hamada were offering to bring you over, to change to a Japanese law firm? Because that's a large step, I would think, from being in a US firm and doing your risk litigation.
Lexi: Yeah. I mean, it was certainly a cultural shift, a salary shift, a lot of different shifts. But basically the pull there, so I like to make sure that I'm clarifying that there was no push or something that I was running away from at MoFo, because I really did like everyone that I worked with there and I liked the things that I was working on there.
But Mori Hamada, they came to me and said, we are trying to build out our international arbitration team. And we have one US lawyer right now, and we'd like you to be the second one and help build this out. And we think that your specific skill set would be really important to this.
And maybe it was the pirate in me who saw the adventure of starting something new. But I liked the idea of being at the ground level of something and building, and also all of the experience that comes along with one American out of two Americans on a team.
Catherine: And does the other person also have Japanese language like you, or you're adding that extra value as well?
Lexi: Yeah. I think that's the skill set that they saw me adding. The other individual has more Japanese language skills than he's willing to admit. But I think I was the one that came over and said, yeah, I can do the Japanese stuff.
Catherine: Right. So there's kind of entrepreneurship going on here, right? Building up this new department, and then you become known for that. And so how's that going? Are you enjoying that?
Lexi: Yeah. It's been, talk about drinking from a fire hose. I feel like I've learned a lot since I've been there. We had an actual arbitration that went to arbitration hearing, which is the arbitration version of trial, this last summer. And so that was completely interesting and a great growing experience for me.
And there's a lot of cultural navigation. To Western companies I think international arbitration is just kind of a matter of course, like, of course you're going to do that. And it's so much easier and so much more guaranteed than risking it on a foreign court's jurisdiction and their decision.
But Japanese companies just have completely different approaches to arbitration, to the kind of dispute resolution clauses they want to put in contracts, everything. And just so kind of learning, you know, I think it's always easier to help someone or to persuade someone if you know where they're coming from to begin with.
And I think this has been a lot of learning where it is the people are coming from, and learning about Japanese companies’ discomfort with international arbitration and whether that's well founded or not, it's good to learn how things are done so that, you know, how can you build something new or change something if you don't know how it is right now?
So it's been a really interesting experience from that perspective as well.
Catherine: And are they coming to you to also, and you don't have to give away anything, but are they coming to you with the, how to draft the appropriate arbitration clause? Or are you actually coming in at the point where they've had their agreement perhaps drafted elsewhere, and you're now trying to sort it out through this arbitration process?
Lexi: So fundamentally what I will hopefully eventually be doing most of the time is once the contract has already been drafted and is falling apart. And so I like to get in at the disputes level, but you know, one interesting thing about Japanese law firms that is completely different from US law firms is Bengoshi are considered to be fully formed, fully capable to do any kind of law.
And so, you know, you have people who have specialised in certain areas, but they might be asked to review a sales agreement, just as though they were a commercial lawyer, even though they are a disputes lawyer. So I've had a lot of crossover work that I didn't really get as an associate at a US firm.
So I do come in sometimes at the drafting the arbitration clause stage, and that's perhaps been even one of the most enlightening parts is the deliberation process that goes into that on the Japanese company side.
Catherine: Hmm. It's interesting though, that fully formed comment you made. It is like lawyers will come out of law school in Japan and go and do these major trials straight off or become a prosecutor or become a judge. And often, I guess, from my way of thinking or my background, don't we have to get practice at this first before we go and do that?
But I'm hearing what you're saying. I haven't had anyone really put it that way, that Japanese Bengoshi are really fully formed at that point. And so are ready to go and do all those things yet. Also you were saying that they do need a little bit of help, and a different way of thinking. And you're providing that at those early stages as well.
That's really interesting.
Lexi: Yeah. I'm not saying that Western lawyers aren't fully formed and I'm not necessarily saying that Japanese lawyers necessarily are, but I think there is a lot of fake it till you make it, at any new job that you're starting. And I say that and that phrase is usually used in a maybe negative way.
What I mean to say is, you know, fake it until you make it, and also someone will make sure that you're not messing everything up. And I think in US law firms, associates are kept on quite a short leash. Like, okay, now you've done step A and now we know you can do step A comfortably. Now we'll give you access to step B.
And there's a lot of more guided learning and at Japanese law firms that kind of just throw associates into it, and correct them before they do anything wrong. And so it's more learning by trial and error than it is learning by guided learning, I guess.
Catherine: Wow. That's interesting.
Good. Well, I'm going to jump in then to your future of law, the dream for your future. Is there anything that you can see coming around the corner that you think is going to be happening in your area of work in Japan or for lawyers in Japan? And you might want to pop in some tips for success there for lawyers who are coming up through the ranks.
That's a big loaded question for you.
Lexi: Sure. Well, I guess maybe fortunately it's kind of the same answer for both, which is as far as my own career goes, I don't necessarily know exactly what's in store yet, but what has worked for me in the past is figuring out what seems true to me and what resonates with me and what I know that I love.
And try not to get distracted by imposter syndrome. I think that's really easy to do for women lawyers, for me. But if you are focusing on what you love to do, for me that's writing and solving the puzzle, I get into a state of flow with that.
And that's how I know that's a thing that I like to do. It's not because people say I should know how to do this, or I should like to do this. It's just something that I know I like. And I plan on just continuing to try to get better at the things that I know that I like to do, and kind of see where that leads me.
I know that kind of sounds passive, but I actually view it as being an active process of developing myself in the areas that I like, to see what kind of new opportunities can be made.
The other thing that's important about to me about sticking and knowing the things that I like to do, and that I think I'm good at, is it does help me on those days of imposter syndrome or if I wonder if I picked the wrong profession, because lately I've had to do a lot of things that are not my favourite part of being a lawyer, or I get some negative feedback or something.
I just kind of remember what it is like to be in that state of flow of writing and just not being able to see, just getting complete tunnel vision of looking at the words and the writing and the logic and how good that feels. And then I think, okay, yeah, this is right. I like doing this. I'm good at doing this. I took a long time to figure out that this is what I want to do and I was not wrong.
And I think that helps me on a day to day basis. And it also helps me try to figure out what's next and what new horizons can be explored, I guess.
Catherine: So it sounds like resilience or being able to talk to yourself in a very positive way, is helping you through these things. Is that what you're doing?
Lexi: Yeah. Yeah. Especially in this new position, there's been so much that I've never been exposed to before that I'm doing now. And I am doing something that I think is kind of new so there's not really a lot of footsteps to follow in. And to be honest, there are a lot of people that are happy to have me there at the table, but they don't really know what to ask me to do because their not used to having a bilingual American litigator.
So they don't really know what to ask me to do. So some of it has to come from me, and has to come from my knowledge of what I can do.
Catherine: You have to be proactive.
Lexi: Yeah. And so I think knowing yourself and what you're good at and the parts where you can be confident, can kind of help you through everything else. They can help you be creative and finding new solutions and new opportunities.
They can be helpful in overcoming setbacks or discouragement or insecurities. I think that's been probably my strongest ally, is just knowing that I wandered around for a while, trying to figure out what I love, but actually really know what I love now as a result of that process.
Catherine: Wow. That's fabulous. I think that's our audio quote for this whole episode. You've just said it. I mean, knowing so well what you're good at, what you're not good at, what really resonates, it's not always too about the biggest salary or the biggest glamorous name of the company or the firm you work for.
It really comes down to doing things that you really like doing. And that's what you're saying to me. And doing the thing that maybe you don't know the future of, but also it's very exciting because you don't have those footsteps to follow and you have a new frontier that you are delving into.
I think that's really incredible and I hope that's inspirational for people. It's certainly inspirational hearing you say it. And I mean, genuinely. That's really amazing. Yay. Wow. Okay. Well, I'm going to jump over then to your routine, your daily life, because I guess now you might be doing a combination of in the office and at home for your work, but what does it look like, your daily routine when you get up and get going for the day? And how are you sort of winding down the day? Give us an insight there
Lexi: So I am horrible at routine. I can't stick to it.
Catherine: That just does not come across. Really? Wow, that does not come across.
Lexi: But one thing that's helped me a lot actually lately is, I have this app, so I'm getting kind of granular here, but I have this app where I've basically entered the ideal morning for myself of, I want to do this many things. I want to get this many things in before I open my inbox and start getting to work and getting carried away.
And you know, I figured out how long it takes and this is going to sound really type A and really contrary to someone who just said they're not good at routines, but like right down to how long it takes me to blow dry my hair and put on my makeup. But you know, I also have things in there, like I write in a journal every morning and I practice Kanji every morning.
Catherine: Oh, good on you.
Lexi: And I try to at least go for a little walk, or watch some kind of exercise on YouTube, doing it along with YouTube in the morning. So I figured out how long each of those things generally takes. And then this app basically is a set of stopwatches basically that says, Hey, you've been blow drying your hair for 20 minutes now, are you still, are you sure you're still blow drying it?
So that catches me when I'm going off somewhere, getting distracted, looking at my phone, or playing with the cats or something. But it's also kind of a little game.
Catherine: How fun.
Lexi: Yeah. So something about that, turning it into a game has made it completely possible for me to follow a morning routine now.
Catherine: Well, it's like those things in the gym, right? When you stop and you go to the next, what is that called?
Lexi: Circuit?
Catherine: You're doing a Circuit with your morning routine. I'm dying to know the name of the app. Come on. Tell me.
Lexi: Oh, it's called Routinery.
Catherine: Routinery.
Lexi: Yeah.
Catherine: Of course it’s called Routinery. Yes. That sounds like fun because sometimes the day gets away from us. We do sneak a little look at the emails and we forget our walk and think, ah, not today. Or you think, oh, Kanji, I'll do double tomorrow and you never do. But I like that idea. I think that sounds like it's fun. And it's getting you onto the next thing. Thank you for sharing that.
And then, so when you do open up your laptop then are you heading into work or you're doing work from home right now still?
Lexi: I'm probably in the office twice a week, at home three days a week on average. Yeah. So on the days that I'm at home, it's hard to really necessarily say what a typical day looks like, because it's always a bit reactive, being in disputes sometimes.
But you know, if I'm at home, I'm working at my home office with one of my cats on my lap. I'm trying to convince myself to go into the office more because as you mentioned, I did start work in the middle of the pandemic. So there's a lot of people that I've worked with for a year and a half that I've never seen their face.
Catherine: Right.
Lexi: So I'm trying to get in the office more just to have a little bit more face to face time with people. So I can at least get to know from their eyeballs up since we're all still wearing masks.
Catherine: That's right. And it's very hard to recognise people when they take their masks off.
Lexi: It really is. Yeah.
Catherine: You get to recognise them with them on, but off is also the difficult thing these days.
Lexi: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Catherine: So what's a little snapshot then, or a slice of your life, that brings you joy right now, aside from having a kitty cat on your lap when you're working? Is there something else?
Lexi: Well, that's definitely a big part of it. I also recently started volunteering at a cat shelter. So I guess it was several months ago now, probably last fall. On Saturday mornings, I go over for about four hours and there's this cat shelter in Otsuka that I go and clean cages and try to brush up the space so that when people come in to take a look at the cats, they have a comfortable place to be.
And the cats have a comfortable place to be too, and it's really such a nice shot of just like when I open the cage and a kitten jumps out right onto my chest and starts purring. It's just like such a straight hit of oxytocin.
Lexi: It's great.
It's completely different from the usual logic mind space that I'm in. I'm just physically working, cleaning cages, seeing things get clean, and then also getting hits of cuddly, warm things. It's yeah, it's a real good thing for me I think.
Catherine: That is a slice of joy that's for sure.
Lexi: Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine: Goodness me. And so I am going to ask you another one then. What does success mean to you then Lexi? Success is… fill in the blank.
Lexi: Yeah. I think you summarised it pretty well earlier, which is, while I am still kind of grappling with external ideas of success. Like, you know, you should make X amount of money or you need this amount of prestige, I think if I have to sit down and really think about it, probably it is being able to do what I love in a place that I love and to do that and getting to grow, finding a place that has all of that.
And I don't know if that's the arrival point of success, but I don't know if there is an arrival point of success.
Sorry.
Catherine: I think that's probably it, there may not be an arrival point of success.
Lexi: Yeah. So maybe success is just getting to some place where you can enjoy growing and can do the things that you want to do, that you love to do, in the place you love to do it.
The other thing is, I mentioned at first I'm trying to grapple with how much I want to take in external ideas of money and prestige as being indicators of success.
I think there's a tendency to either fall victim to that mentality entirely, to only view those two indicators as indicators of success, or to completely dismiss it as like, oh, those aren't for me. I'm above making money and prestige. And I don't actually think that either is correct.
Catherine: Two ends of the scale, maybe?
Lexi: Yeah, I think in particular, my instinct is that women are a lot more likely than men to say, oh, it's okay, I don't need to be the boss, or I don't need to be in the most prestigious position or make the most money, and to kind of step back and undersell themselves. And so I think something that I'm still grappling with and learning is how much it's okay for me to ask for those things, for money and prestige, while not compromising fundamental things that are really important to me.
And I think it's a balance. I think it's not either or. I think it's not an on and off switch because underselling yourself is not great either, you know?
Catherine: Oh, I hear you. It sounds like being the best person you can possibly be with everything that's given to you and also everything that you're capable of and being entirely grateful for it at the same time.
Lexi: And being not afraid to ask for what you think you deserve, as long as your concept of what you think you deserve is coming from a place of authenticity and genuineness.
Catherine: Right. Great. Okay. Well, I'm going to just keep down the road towards the ending, but I do want to know though, if you do have some advice for other lawyers who are coming up the ranks, starting out their careers perhaps, or just got into law school, or just graduated and heading on their path.
Lexi: I think I'll start with the bad advice. And that is people told me that I could not do litigation in Japan. And I think anytime you get told you can't do X type of law in X location, I think say thank you very much. And that might be true, that there's not an easy path to do that, but I don't think it means it's not possible.
And I think if you know that you want to do X at Y location and both X and Y are really important to you, I think you will find a way to do that. And it might not be at first either. It might not be during on-campus interviews that you find the perfect firm that has everything that you want, that you will ultimately be looking for.
But I think step one is to know what your X and your Y are, and to know yourself well enough to know those things are noncompromise points for me. And then to just stay open to the different forms in which that opportunity may come, even if it comes the week you moved into your new house.
Catherine: Wow. You're blowing me away. That's just amazing. Oh my goodness. .
I guess, to ask you, you just talked about the worst advice, but is there anything that was the best advice that you got and who said that to you?
Lexi: It's related to, it's actually the same counsel that told me that I needed to share my thoughts in meetings and told other people to quiet down so I could. He also said, I think on my first day at Skadden, that he could tell who was going to become a good associate by whether or not they thought about the case after they went home.
And I don't think he means, don't have any work-life balance or always be worried about work or thinking about work when you're out with your family or whatever. But I think the point is there's a big difference between having ownership of your work and not having ownership of it. And I think what he was trying to explain is, if you're continuing to think about it, when you're not in meetings with other people, to actively talking about that case, or even when you're in the shower or something, if you're thinking about the case, then chances are you feel ownership over that case and your part in that case.
If you don't have ownership over something, the good ideas, the inspiration, it's not going to strike you because you're not, you haven't really opened the door for that to happen. I think if you're just grazing the surface, you haven't dug deep enough to really allow room for the inspiration to come in, and to really grapple with the case and the contents.
That's all very vague, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, having just a few concrete ways to think about ownership and to remind myself to come back to ownership and really getting down into the deep of a case. It's very easy to get a lot of emails in and work on a very shallow level, just trying to get stuff out and off your plate as quickly as possible.
And I'm just as susceptible to that as anyone else I think. but when I realise that I'm doing that and maybe making some dumb mistakes, or just not really thinking about anything really deeply or slowly, remembering that advice of like, people think about the case when they go home or people who take the time to get quiet and think about the case slow down.
Those are the kinds of things that I try to think to myself, to slow myself down and to really be able to do the deeper level thinking that the job requires. I think taking ownership and feeling ownership is kind of the key to getting into that deep thinking space, because if you don't have ownership of it, you're just going to be waiting for someone else's instructions and not really thinking about everything holistically.
Catherine: Right, and treating it like a checklist. It's done, next, next, next. Oh, yes. I'm glad I asked you that question. That's so inspiring and inspirational. And you know, you’ve really given a lot away there. I also think it's interesting. It makes me feel like when you go to a good movie and you come out and days later you're still thinking about it, or you read a book and it's still lingering in your mind.
It doesn't mean you're not interested in the conversation that you're having with your friend, or that you can't get to sleep because you're thinking about the book or the movie, it's just that it lingers enough for you to really think about what it meant, and what you can do with that story that you've heard.
And I feel that's almost what you're saying with the cases or the work that you're doing, is you've owned it and now you're internalising it. And how can you make the next client do better with what you've already experienced with this particular case, perhaps?
Lexi: Yeah. That's exactly it. Yeah. Very well put. Yeah.
Catherine: I'm going to head now into the final super six I like to call it. It's a quick fire round of six questions or so that I ask every guest to wind up the interview. And the first one is always about giving you cash and I hope it was okay with you and your white collar crimes and everything that you investigate.
Lexi: Okay. I don't work for the government.
Catherine: Obviously it’s a hypothetical 1 million yen in cash in Japan.
Where would you spend it? I'm thinking about what you just said before. You may be spending it at a cat shelter, but anyway, your favourite store or destination or place that you would like to place that money.
Lexi: Yeah, you guessed it.
Catherine: I got it.
Lexi: I think I'd be giving it to some cat or animal rescue, probably the one that I work for, but that is a lot of money. So maybe I'll spread it around to some other rescues as well.
Catherine: That is fabulous. And I did just mention about books and movies, but have you got a podcast or a book or movie that you've watched, listened to, read recently that you'd recommend?
Lexi: So I read this book recently. It's nonfiction so it's not necessarily the kind that the story lingers with you as much, but I thought it was a really good book for lawyers to read and I recommended it to my friends. It's called Burnout and it's by Emily Nagoski and it kind of talks about the physiological aspects of stress and how our modern lifestyles aren't necessarily well designed to get rid of the chemicals that are in your body as a result of the stress that you feel.
And so it kind of builds up and leads to burnout or illness or all these different things. So it talks on a physiological, psychological level about the types of ways that you can get rid of some of that built up stress.
And, yeah, I found it really interesting and also helpful.
Catherine: Very interesting. We're going to pop that into the show notes. That's amazing. Do you have a favourite saying or like a kotowaza that guides you?
Lexi: There's a saying that one does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.
Catherine: Ooh.
Lexi: And I think, again maybe that's the pirate in me, but I like that. It reminds me to just keep the faith in myself that I'm doing what I love and developing what I love and the shore will come at some point.
Catherine: Ooh. I love it. Wow. Okay. Famous person, celebrity that you have met or would like to meet?
Lexi: Well, who I would like to meet is Suda Masaki who is an actor and musician here in Japan. And I don't think he listens to this podcast in particular, but if he is, you know where to find me.
Catherine: Is he doing drama?
Lexi: Yeah. Mostly drama yeah. And movies. But he does some comedy as well, but he's a very good actor, and very expressive musician. So I really like that.
Catherine: Okay. I'll be looking out for him after this. I'm going to be on Google, searching his name. And is there something about you that people don’t know?
Lexi: I'll tell you, it explains a lot about me.
Catherine: Mm.
Lexi: My mom used to breed cats when I was younger. So when I was born, I was born into a family that already had, I think, about 30 cats.
Catherine: Whoa.
Lexi: Yeah, I was raised around like 30 cats at a time. So it explains a lot.
Catherine: No, I didn't know that. That's amazing and explains a lot about your love for cats.
Lexi: Yeah.
Catherine: Yes, that's wonderful. Wow. thank you so much, Lexi. That was so much fun going through those questions and everything. It's been lovely. Wonderful, lovely, and New Zealanders say lovely a lot. So thank you so much for coming on Lawyer on Air. It’s been really a joy.
Lexi: Oh, thank you.
Catherine: Sharing your inspirational stories, really in-depth about how you feel and what matters to you, and how that really does show up in the work that you're doing. But also sharing that book, the name of that book is doing well with your life, but not going too far that you burn out.
And I think that's really important too. You've shown us that. You've just shown us too that you can have this success, and your definition of success was brilliant, and enjoy your work outside of your home jurisdiction, sailing away from the shore to another shore and a different culture and setting your roots down here.
So thank you so much for sharing your story.
Lexi: Well, thank you. It’s been a lot of fun. Thank you so much.
Catherine: Thank you. And if people want to get in touch with you, how can they do that? Should they do that through LinkedIn or on the website for your firm? What's the best way?
Lexi: I think LinkedIn is probably the best way. I don't know that the website of my firm has direct contact information, so yeah.
Catherine: Actually it doesn't. I think I tried in the initial stages and I couldn't find you there so on LinkedIn. That's great. Cause I know you're pretty active there too.
Lexi: Yes, yes.
Catherine: Well, we'll put that all on the show notes. So anyone who's interested in contacting you, or connecting, can learn a little bit more from you by contacting you on LinkedIn.
Lexi: Yes. That would be great. Thank you.
Catherine: Well, we'll finish up here, and for my listeners, please do listen to this episode, subscribe to Lawyer on Air, because then you won't miss out on receiving future episodes, and do drop us a review because that really does help lawyer on air be seen by more people.
And you can actually jump on over to my web page as well and leave a voicemail. I do really love hearing actual voices telling me about the guests and what you enjoyed about our chat. So do go ahead, share the episode and help someone else who you think will listen to it, and enjoy and be inspired to live a wonderful lawyer extraordinaire life.
That's all for now. See you on the next episode. Cheers, kampai and bye for now.
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