Developing a growth mindset to become founding partner of a joint enterprise law firm in Japan with Rika Beppu
A full transcript follows.
Rika Beppu was adamant she would forge her career through her own hard work as an English lawyer working in a UK firm. When her firm offered her the role of a lifetime and an opportunity to be the founding partner of a new office in Tokyo, this really challenged her idea of how she had planned her career and it did not include Japan! Listen as we hear how Rika navigated her career to where she is today.
If you enjoyed this episode and it inspired you in some way, we’d love to hear about it and know your biggest takeaway. Head over to Apple Podcasts to leave a review and we’d love it if you would leave us a message here!
In this episode you’ll hear:
How Rika came to be inspired to study law after living with a law student in the US.
Why she decided to pursue her law career in the UK, intentionally avoiding firms with connections to Japan
What happened when she was offered a founding partner position in Tokyo
How Rika has thrived in her board role as an outside director
Her favourite saying and other fun facts
About Rika
Rika Beppu is a corporate M&A lawyer who has been practicing law in Tokyo as a foreign-registered lawyer for the past two decades.
After her first degree from the English Language and Foreign Studies faculty of Sophia University, Rika studied and worked in the UK as an English law solicitor.
She then came to Tokyo to open the first joint enterprise between a large Japanese law firm and an international law firm.
Rika advises Japanese corporates in their global M&A transactions which span the globe. More recently she has been involved in divesting non-core global businesses of Japanese companies.
She is passionate about equality in the workplace and in society and has been inspired by her experience as an Asia Society Young Global Leader fellow to contribute to and give back to society in different ways. This led her to be instrumental in founding Women in Law Japan in 2016 together with a group of amazing like-minded female legal professionals.
She has also become active in the Lawyers for LGBT & Allies Network in Japan which fully supports equal marriage rights in Japan.
In her role as chair of the legal services committee of the European Business Council (that is, the EU Chamber of Commerce in Japan), she advocates for a level playing field for foreign registered lawyers, in particular she is advocating that the three-year work experience rule should be abolished in its entirety.
In June 2022, Rika was appointed as an outside director of Mitsubishi Materials Corporation and is relishing this new challenge.
Connect with Rika
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rika-beppu-21b55830/
Links
Asia Society Young Global Leaders
Connect with Catherine
Linked In https://www.linkedin.com/in/oconnellcatherine/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawyeronair
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/catherine.oconnell.148
Twitter: https://twitter.com/oconnelllawyer
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@lawyeronair
Transcript
Catherine: Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode on The Lawyer on Air Podcast. I'm the host of the show, Catherine O'Connell. Today I'm joined by Rika Beppu, who is a corporate M&A lawyer who has been practicing law in Tokyo as a foreign registered lawyer for the past two decades. After her first degree from the English Language and Foreign Studies faculty of Sophia University, Rika studied and worked in the UK as an English law solicitor.
She then came to Tokyo to open up the first joint enterprise between a large Japanese law firm and international law firm. Rika advises Japanese corporates in their global M&A transactions, which span the globe. More recently, she has been involved in divesting non-core global businesses of Japanese companies. She is passionate about equality in the workplace and in society, and has been inspired by her experience as an Asia Society Young Global Leader Fellow to contribute to and give back to society in many ways. This led to her being instrumental in founding women in law Japan in 2016, together with a group of amazing like-minded female legal professionals.
She has also become active in the lawyers for LGBT & Allies Network in Japan, which fully supports equal marriage rights in Japan.
In her role as chair of the Legal Services Committee of the European Business Council, that is the EU Chamber of Commerce in Japan, she advocates for a level playing field for foreign registered lawyers.
In particular, she's advocating that the three year work experience rule should be abolished in its entirety. Well, in June, 2022, Rika was appointed as an outside director of Mitsubishi Materials Corporation and is really relishing this new challenge.
And during Covid, Rika started training in the Japanese martial art called Shorinji Kempo, and she also took up cooking for the first time in her life.
In her spare time, she can be seen literally zooming around Tokyo on her bike chasing after her two very active children. Well, that's Rika in a nutshell, and I can't wait to get started. Rika, welcome to the show.
Rika: Thank you so much, Catherine. I'm very grateful to be a guest on your acknowledged, famous, awarded podcast. Thank you so much. I'm very grateful to be a guest.
Catherine: Thank you very, very much, Rika. And I know we are meeting up soon, but if we were just meeting up, you and me together, where would we go? Do you have a favourite wine bar or restaurant or cafe that you like to go to? And what would you choose off the menu?
Rika: I have a very low key place that I would love to meet up with you, Catherine, and it will be the Segafredo in Hiroo, quite near Arisugawa Park for a morning cafe latte.
I'm a morning person.
Catherine: I'm a morning person too. Are you? I thought you were a night person. You're a morning person?
Rika: Oh. I project different things to different people.
Catherine: How interesting. Yeah. I always thought you were a late night owl, but you are an early morning foul, as they call it. The owls and the fouls, right? So you are like me. Wow. Interesting. It is so great to have you here on the podcast.
We did work together back in a law firm about 10 years ago and we are regularly in touch now with women in law, Japan and other community and board activities and other advocacy based work in Tokyo. And we both got these outside board roles this year. So we have a lot in common. And I have been wanting to have you on the show for some time, so I'm really glad we've finally got to connect today.
Rika: Thank you Catherine. I'm really thrilled to be a guest.
Catherine: Thank you. And I know that you have taken up cooking and I've been the same. What kind of dish do you like to cook the most?
Rika: My two favourite dishes that I am happy to cook is roast pork with roast vegetables, and a salmon pie.
Catherine: Oh, interesting. Salmon pie. I haven't had that. That sounds nice. Wonderful. Well, I start off the podcast, usually Rika with the same question for people, and that is taking you back in time to when you were a child or even into your young adult years. What kind of careers were you thinking about back then?
What did you want to be?
Rika: As a young adult, I have to admit, I didn't have very clear ideas as to what I wanted to be. My university, Sophia, was very encouraging. I think I would say, especially in the foreign languages faculty, there was a higher percentage of female students as compared to male. So it was really much a, you could do anything, you can go out into the world and achieve anything kind of mentality, but I was very aware that without a professional qualification, that it would not be easy as a Japanese female in the Japanese corporate world.
So I was drawn to try and further my studies or take up a new study because I wasn't a law student, and to have a professional qualification and use that as the springboard to start a career.
Catherine: Mm, Same with me, really. I mean, when I left school I didn't really know what I wanted to do and it was really the language, you know, Japanese language that attracted me into that. And doing the first career in tourism. So, so often we don't know what we actually want to be when we are coming through as a young person.
And so I find real affinity to what you're saying because it was similar for me. So when did lawyer as a career then come up for you? When did that start to feel like it's something you could do as your professional career?
Rika: I think I was very fortunate to be exposed to what law school may be like from a very personal experience. At Sophia I was very lucky to have a spot as an exchange student at a very small Catholic college in New Jersey in my third year at uni. And I happened to be, this is really just luck, be roommates with a first year law school student.
And it was a bit unusual as a system because I was there as an undergrad exchange student. And of course she was a first year at law school, which is a graduate school program. But we roomed together and she was studying very, very hard, as US law schools I think the first year is known to be the one which really moulds you and shapes you and you really need to study very, very hard.
Which was quite a contrast to me who was enjoying taking lots of different subjects because I was very lucky in that any subject that I took whilst on foreign exchange program would count as a credit to my home university.
So I was able to really expand and explore whatever took my fancy. But she, in contrast, was very focused on obviously the law and it really opened my eyes to, wow, this is such a system as law school, the law obviously draws out a lot of you, it makes you study and focus very intensely. So that actually very much appealed to me.
Catherine: Oh, interesting. Right. So you are rooming with her for, was that a year, did you say?
Rika: A year. Yes.
Catherine: And then you came back to your home university, Sophia?
Rika: Yes, and I think at the time all the students were very much, so I came back in the first half right before summer of my fourth year, my final year at uni. And it was a time when everybody was scrambling and really running around, basically applying for jobs as new graduates for Japanese corporations. It was the shushoku katsudo season in full throng, and I came back with a very different idea that I would like to pursue studies in law, but not in Japan, but in an English speaking country like the US.
So that's what I came back with, that distinct idea in mind.
Catherine: It's interesting though, isn't it, that you changed from that kind of taking it more smoothly or slowly or easy, and then seeing someone who was working really, really hard in their studies and that inspired you to do something different and work very hard for your studies. I'm pretty sure some people may have been turned away from that really, and thought, I'm quite happy where I am. Why would I want to do something harder?
Did you talk to her a lot about that, the student that you roomed with?
Rika: I think I didn't pepper her with questions or really dig deeply into what she was studying and whatnot, because she was very focused. And we had a great year, you know, we were very good as roommates together, but I think it was the fact that it was a path well laid in that if you study, of course, study hard, very focused, then you get a qualification.
Then based on that qualification you would, you know, hopefully get your first job and then your kind of career as a shakaijin as a business person starts from there. So it was more the fact that it triggered and inspired something in me that actually I saw a path which would sit very well with me trying to start a career as a very specifically a Japanese female person in a male dominant Japanese corporate world.
Catherine: Right. You wanted that professional qualification that you talked about earlier. And so when you came back to Sophia, did you have to switch or add something else in there to do the law aspect before heading over to the UK?
Rika: Uh, no it wasn't. So I was really in the last leg of my undergrad study, so it really wasn't something that I needed to start doing whilst in Japan, but it really focused me to try and find a path to see where I could go to law school, what kind of legal qualification I could get, and more importantly, how to finance myself, while studying.
Catherine: Sure. And so how did you find that path? Because that took you over to England, didn't it? To be able to study?
Rika: So I think the easier path was trying to apply for US law schools, which I believe I did, and looked into how that was done, and at the time it wasn't, the internet was burgeoning, but it wasn't the main source of resources and research.
So it was places like the British Council and the information that they had as to legal education in the UK and whatnot. And what really attracted me to legal studies in the UK was the fact that you do need to work as a trainee lawyer. You need to obviously find a firm who will employ you and provide you with the salary and the training to become a UK qualified English qualified solicitor.
But that was combined with the law school studies that I needed to do, which was two years a law conversion course and at the time what was called the Law Society finals course, the l s f course, two years of law school, two years of working, which will get me my qualification. And as I was thinking of not working for a few years and then pursuing law, I really wanted to do it immediately after my first degree without any proper work experience that was the most attractive as well as financially.
The whole system was that if you found a law firm who would employ you or give you an offer to come to their law firm to work as a trainee lawyer, you know, two, three years in advance, they would actually fund, financially sponsor your law school fees as well as a living stipend as well.
Catherine: Wow, that's amazing. And so there were so many moving parts there because you've gotta find the firm and the school. What fell into place first that sort of started you to be able to really know that you could go and do that?
Rika: I think it was first the offer from the University of Birmingham to join their newly created global conversion course. So it was the time when, actually the first time when universities, as opposed to what in England is called the college of law and some more different group of higher education institutions called polytechnics, who would offer the law conversion course.
So it was the first time that universities were offering the course and it was brand new for Birmingham. And the person in charge really hand selected a very diverse group of people. And it was very small. It was basically one class of law conversion students and I was very fortunate to be one of them.
And so I think that fell into place, but then I thought, well, if I didn't have the law firm training solicitor offer, then it wouldn't, you know, it would be just the studies and I'll have to do something before I can actually find a training contract which would lead to my qualification.
So I do remember distinctly, it was first the law school where I got the offer.
Catherine: Right. And then you find the other firm as well and then start doing that practical side of things where you're going in as a trainee.
Rika: Yes.
Catherine: Right. Interesting. I think it's still similar now, isn't it? That people need to find the law firm to do the practical side of things and they changed the seats throughout that time.
Rika: True. I think so.
Catherine: It’s pretty much the same. Wow, that's amazing. And so you did that and you got that and you admitted to the bar.
Rika: Yes, indeed.
Catherine: And you then became, well, you worked as an English solicitor for a while there.
Rika: Yes. So what happened was actually I moved to a firm where I started out my newly qualified work, and when I moved from the law firm that I had trained to the law firm that I had qualified and started working as a lawyer, I deliberately looked for a place in London, which did not have a Tokyo office, and more importantly did not have a Japan desk, which was catered, you know, specifically for Japanese clients with the language skills and whatnot.
I really deliberately shied away or ran away from any inkling that I would be pigeonholed into being a UK lawyer, but, you know, servicing Japanese clients or doing anything connected with Japan. Because for me it was, well, I'm qualified as an English lawyer. I wanted practical experience as an English lawyer and wanted to really experience the full breadth of what that could bring without being pigeonholed into a specific path.
Catherine: Right. And so you knew that really distinctly, it's not something that you thought, I'll try it for a little while and, and no, I don't want to do it eventually, but I still want to do it for a little bit. You already knew that you didn't want to be, as you say, pigeonholed or boxed into that area, right?
Rika: I believe so.
Catherine: Mm.
Rika: And that led me to the choice of joining a firm which didn't have a Tokyo office and didn't have a Japan desk, but really understood what I was offering. And they said, okay, Rika, you know, that's a path. You know, we don't have a Tokyo office, we don't have a Japan desk.
You know, we will treat you like you're a newly qualified lawyer joining the corporate law department in the London headquarters of a UK international firm. And, you know, let's see.
Catherine: Right. It didn't matter about your nationality, it was your qualification, and that's what you wanted to enhance. Of course. Makes sense. That's really brilliant. And then, is that the same firm that allowed you then to come through to Tokyo to do the first joint enterprise, or was that a different firm?
Rika: It is. Yes. It's Simmons & Simmons, the firm that I grew up in. And it was really a place where I really felt comfortable. I was very much nurtured, mentored, and I really, really wanted to become a partner in a law firm. I was very single-minded about that. And I think the reason why is that I realised that in order to continue in private practice, I needed to make partner.
I needed to become my own business owner inside the framework of a law firm. And so I was very single-minded about it. I had a path, I had a plan that I was pursuing when the Tokyo office offer came up. And I was thrilled to hear that the firm, Simmons was opening a Tokyo office and I was very supportive.
And I thought, wow, that would be great career-wise whilst I was in London, you know, going for partnership that the firm would have a Tokyo office. But it was definitely not in my mind that I would be going or coming to Tokyo to open up their office. I always thought it would be somebody else.
Catherine: Right? So you're deliberate on going into a firm that did not have a Tokyo office, but here's this opportunity coming up where you can actually do the opening, right? Bring in this large Japanese law firm and an international law firm together. What an opportunity. And so were you, you were yes, yes, yes about that. That doesn't sound like you were having doubts. It was just yes.
Rika: Oh, no. Actually, Catherine, I had huge doubts.
Catherine: You did.
Rika: I had huge, huge doubts. My initial reaction was not in a million years.
Catherine: Oh really?
Rika: And I was really about to say, no thank you and just continue in my path.
Catherine: Oh, really? What changed?
Rika: I think it was really because I was so single-minded. I had a path, I had specific kinds of transactions that I wanted to do, to make a name for myself in the UK London market, establish myself and whatnot, and I was a few years away.
So in terms of that, I thought the Tokyo Office offer was a brilliant one. I think I was really chuffed and really delighted with the recognition that anybody would even consider me to go and be the founding partner because I wasn't partner yet.
But it really felt like it was a path that I wasn't thinking was the correct path to take, to be what I wanted to be, which was an English law partner in a UK international law firm in London. It was like, oh, I couldn't possibly, you know, use my Japanese calling card to first get partner and then, you know, be established in the firm.
I had my way, where I wanted to, how I wanted to do things and the Japan thing seemed to be actually a detour, too much of a detour to me, a roundabout way of getting there, which didn't sound like the right way to do it.
Catherine: Right. So we are battling there internally with the right way and the way that we'd planned and being a single-minded person. But the detour is something that you actually did take, and was it really a detour? It's actually just certainly on your path, your trajectory was really going towards that, because here you are in Japan and have been here since those days.
And so what was it that, how'd you get rid of those doubts? Did someone help you or did you, you know, did you talk to anyone? You said you were mentored and nurtured and grew up in Simmons.
Rika: Yes.
Catherine: What happened there to sort of switch you around to
Rika: Initially I do think that my initial reaction, however forcefully or unforcefully, I projected it. I think people just didn't quite understand why I was resisting so much. And I think probably were quite puzzled, or maybe I was wisely silent on my initial reaction.
Catherine: Wisely silent. Yeah.
Rika: But I actually had a very, very good friend who I had gone to law school with in Birmingham, who had gone to be a member of the bar, a barrister. So our second year of law school was in different places. He actually gave me a book, a very, I wouldn't even call it a book, but I would call it like a, like a booklet even.
But it's called Who Moved My Cheese?
Catherine: Oh, that book? Yes. Yes. I've heard of it.
Rika: And it was very subtle in a way. He was like, yeah, okay. I hear what you're saying. You're really violently against taking this path because you think it's a bit of a cheating kind of way. Cheating your way into partnership. And you know, the Japan card is not something, you were nurturing that and warming that up, but it feels like a bit of a defeat in trying to use that to get to, you know, your ambition to become a partner a few years earlier than you thought you might get there and whatnot.
But he gave me the book, I read it, I got the book’s message, and I said, okay, I think this was too big and amazing an opportunity to turn down.
So I will go to Tokyo, I will go and open up the new office, but I'll be back home in London in about two, three years time. That was the promise that I had with my firm.
Catherine: What was the message you got from that book?
Rika: I think the message I got, and I actually did reread it recently, is that, embrace change.
So don't get stuck into your way of thinking,
Catherine: Right.
Rika: Your own way of thinking.
Catherine: Sounds like that was maybe a time when it sort of shifted you a little bit in the way that you viewed yourself internally and the way that you were going along your path. It sounds like that was quite significant.
Rika: I think maybe I allowed myself a little bit of a road back in though I think I was very clear, I was very vocal about this, that, okay, you're sending me to Tokyo, I'll happily do it. But really I need to be back in the UK, back in London to continue with the path that I saw for myself, which was to be a fully established lawyer partner in the London office.
So I think it was, the promise was made and that's the basis on which I went. So I was very happy because I had this new challenge of opening up a new office, but it was very clear to the people who had put me forward and really encouraged me to go and take up a new challenge that I will be back in a few years.
Catherine: And did you?
Rika: I never went back, Catherine. I still harbour those thoughts of, I may be back one day.
Catherine: Well, you never know.
Rika: That was 20 years ago. So, yeah, I think, you never know.
Catherine: There you were, you know, embracing change. You came here, you got over the, those words that are quite heavy, aren't they? Cheating or defeating yourself, but actually it's an embracing change within yourself to come through here. And you did this joint venture, what skills and attributes then that you had to bring to that situation to bridge what must have been quite different cultures, right, an international firm and a large Japanese firm. How did you go about doing that?
Rika: I think it was very much a reinventing myself, first of all, even before I got to the role of managing the relationship or gaining the trust of the partners at the Japanese law firm side, who at the time were much, much older than me, sort of two decades senior to me. But it really was a, I was a hardworking, hard hitting lawyer working all hours of the day and night, 24 7.
Really, really trying to hone my skills and taking on whatever work that was there to really deepen my knowledge and my experience. It started small, but then it started growing, managing a team, managing people who would look to me for guidance and leadership.
So it was a completely different set of skills that I needed, which at the start I did not have, so many mistakes were made. Many downsides to not preparing myself mentally enough to take on that new challenge. I just thought I could barrel through. I'm here for two, three years. I'm gonna be the founding member of this thing, this new foundling, but once I kind of give birth to it, I'm gonna go back and do my own thing.
Catherine: It's so interesting, isn't it? And I mean, how could you know if it hadn't been done before, how would you know how to do it? So this reinvention of self makes sense. It sounds like you were, it's almost like wearing a tight outfit and then having to try and loosen it to be adjusting to those two decades senior chaps and trying to do things differently in all parts of it, within yourself and externally.
Sounds like it might have been quite challenging. What were some of the highs and lows then for you at that time?
Rika: I think I can definitely recall that we were a very close knit team. You know, at the time I wasn't, you know, I wasn't two decades senior to like the associate group that was there, or the trainee lawyers. I felt very much, you know, akin in terms of, I'm just a few years older, but you know, with a little bit more experience, but not a whole lot.
So I was very, in my own mind just being very fair and treating everybody as equals. So, you know, if I needed to make a point about somebody's work product or work ethic or behaviour at work, I was very direct. Very direct. Because in my mind I was talking to an equal, we're on the same footing, we can talk eye to eye.
But I really learned the hard way that when you're given a position, when you are conceived in the title or role of being a leader, that your voice is amplified and it reverberates.
Even if I'm saying, you know, like in a little whisper, oh, maybe you could do this a little bit differently, it sounds very different to the recipient. It sounds, you know, tremendously more serious and important and loaded than what I had imagined.
So yeah, I had to learn the hard way. I had a very good 360 degree assessment. And the one comment that I remember coming out of it, which stays with me to this day, is Rika should think that because the team is happy, that she's happy and not the other way around.
Catherine: Oh, that's big.
Rika: A good, good lesson. Yeah. I've never forgotten that on a daily basis.
Catherine: You should be happy only when your team members are happy. Huh? So how did that, how's that changed things then for you with everything that you do, do you think of, is that the way you lead yourself now in your roles?
Rika: I think it was definitely a basis for what I look for in leadership in others and try to practise myself, but I really do put it into three words as traits or things that I really look for and I think of as a must have, which are integrity, honesty, and empathy. And to me those, it's just those three words based on experience and the good feedback that I've had over the years.
Catherine: Hmm. And what's the most important of those?
Rika: Wow. Um, empathy.
Catherine: I was thinking that myself.
Rika: Oh really? Catherine, you know me better than I know myself.
Catherine: We know each other well, but I feel empathy. And that's the way that we have relations with people, isn't it? And from there, perhaps honesty and integrity grow. Very interesting. So from those early days then Rika to now, you've talked a lot about these things that matter to you, the thing that was told to you in the 360 and these traits that you look for. What's been the journey then from that point to where you are now with your current role as a partner?
Rika: So I think, in terms of the initial promise of, oh, I'll be back home in the UK and London in, you know, two, three years, it turned into, oh, you know, it was such a challenge. So the role of reinventing myself to be a manager, to be a business owner, to build up relationships, was something that I felt, I immediately sensed that it would take time.
And also very interestingly, once I reached Japan, where of course my family is, where my university school or friends were, everybody said in a very positive way. It was not meant negatively. Everybody said “Okaeri nasai”, welcome home to Japan. And I think I took that to mean however much I had experienced outside of Japan and, you know, tried to thrive to create a professional base for myself outside of Japan, that it really was a welcome home.
You finally saw the light, you know, everything that you had done overseas was in order to be back and to be solidly grounded back in Japan, in Tokyo, to then use those skills and experiences to be a bridge to the outside of Japan and in Japan. So the okaeri to me was very much a welcome back. We forgive you for being away for quite a long time, but now you've seen the light and you know that you're back here and doing the right thing to use those skill sets and experiences for the betterment of Japan and the corporate world in Japan and Japanese businesses and whatnot.
I really was struck by how that pull or the essence of that feeling that I felt maybe mistakenly was so strong. So I really could not, you know, tell people professionally that, oh, I'm just here as a guest. I'm here for a few years. I'm gonna do my thing. I'm gonna do it very, very well. And based on that, I'm gonna have a great career back in the UK and that's where I'll be for the longer term, but not Japan.
Catherine: So was the okaeri also a, well, shall I say, was it also an invitation to forgive yourself, do you think?
Rika: Although I sensed it and I had the, I think I captured it in the right way. Of course, nobody overtly said, you know, thank goodness you're back home. You know, you're not going away again. You know, this is where you should be. I really much felt, wow, that sense of the pull. Japanese people don't forgive a Japanese person leaving, or they don't ever believe that you're willing to leave and leave for good, you'll always come home, was something that I felt and I respected, but I didn't necessarily agree with.
So that's why I always secretly harboured, I'll be back, I'll be back in the UK, even as the years rode by. And the reason why I kept on renewing my stay or my renewing my initial sort of just a few years at the beginning, was because it was such a challenge and I could see the challenges that I really wasn't doing very well or, you know, new things that I wanted to really get better at or be good at.
And also really the team that I had in Tokyo as well were very much a group of people that I wanted to continue to build the business with and therefore the years kind of stretched out into more years, and then I had the opportunity to move firms as well. But it is something that I kind of smile and look back and think, why did I think that I would only be here for two, three years?
Catherine: We don't know though, do we? And we just don't know. And we are allowed to have our dream to come back or do something or return. So I think that's really, you know, valid. Why would we not think that? And, you know, there's still time. There are all kinds of opportunities to be in different places.
But if you could turn back then and look at that maybe 18, 19, 20 year old self, you know, the one who's at Sophia or in New Jersey or the one that's just gone to England, what would you tell her?
Rika: That's a very good question, Catherine. What would I tell her? I think the single mindedness and the omoikomi of being where I wanted to be, where and at what time, was good as a motivator for me. And it really, you know, challenged me and pushed me and focused me, but at the same time, I would just say chill.
Catherine: Hmm.
Rika: And be more holistic in your life experiences.
Yes, being a workaholic or recovering workaholic, you know, has its good things. You can achieve certain things, but in terms of enjoying life, you know, making time for friends, making time for other life experiences. Was not necessarily there. I really, really focused a lot on work, or trying to get to places and I perceived there was a certain way of doing it and any other way just didn't occur to me.
So I would say maybe chill. Give yourself a little bit of bandwidth to do other things as well.
Catherine: And you're creating that now, right? With your cooking and Shorinji Kempo you're creating your bandwidth, but maybe at that time it couldn't happen. But now you're doing it
Fantastic. Yeah.
Rika: I think, yeah, because over the years I wasn't giving myself a lot of time to do new things. I think Covid was a difficult time. I really do readily admit that. It was really changing my mode of operation. I couldn't do things the way that I perceived was my happy place in terms of, you know, constantly meeting people, conducting business face-to-face and having the opportunity to thrive in an office environment where everybody was in the office and it was really a big change.
But yeah, within that, I think having the sort of, opportunity to take up a martial art, shorinji kempo.
Catherine: I'm gonna look out when I see you next.
Rika: It was life changing.
Catherine: I’m gonna stay a fair distance away from you. You never know what might happen.
Rika: The one thing about shorinji kempo is actually, it's a defence only art. We are never meant to use it as offence, but I think the philosophy I'm really bought into, I don't wanna go on about it because I will take up too much time, but really the whole purpose of the art is actually to achieve world peace and to nurture and, mentor youngsters as well as adults who are confident and well grounded, but also have empathy and can be kind to others, which will lead to world peace.
Catherine: Fantastic. Do you have dan like the different levels of that?
Rika: Yes, we have dan, we have kyuu at the beginning and then there's dan. So, I do have a very solid commitment to try and become a black belt dan holder in as many years as it'll take. I'm such a poor student of the art, Catherine. I think my dojo master is really like thinking, oh my gosh, who have we accepted into this?
Catherine: No, it's all good.
Rika: But it’s so much fun.
Catherine: So defence. So actually I'm going to have to pull you over on my side then to help defend and, you know, with this origins and aiming for world peace, it's really very different, isn't it? It's very much spiritually based as an art, as you said.
It's a martial art, but it really emphasises the art side of things.
Rika: Yes. It's a, it's a very neat philosophy as well as a community that I never thought I would be a part of. But if you practise shorinji kempo, we are all equals in the eyes of the community. Kenshi we're called.
Catherine: Kenshi.
And that so dovetails very nicely into all the other things that you are doing with your activity with LLAN, lawyers for LGBT and Allies Network in Japan, fully supporting equal marriage rights. This, you know, you've got a lot of signatures on the American Chamber of Commerce and Japan White paper.
You know, that is really being supported by so many organisations. You are also working on this, trying to get rid of the three year work experience that's needed for the gaijin, the foreign lawyers qualification, all of this seems to dovetail into the same area where you're being driven for equality.
And so what is it that led you then to the lawyers for LGBT and Allies Network in particular? What was that that you found mobilising within yourself to be a part of?
Rika: I think a lot happened really around 2015, 2016. So women in law was really being hatched. We were starting with the initial launch party, which was a very casual event at a law firm office, you know, catered for, it was pizza and drinks or something. And then around the same time, I think the beginnings of LLAN were being hatched.
So I was asked by somebody to just come and join the LLAN breakfast meeting where people were joining and just figuring out. They wanted to do as a group on the basis that I think, what I had said to that individual of what we were trying to do at Women in Law resonated with him and said, oh, we're trying to do the same thing too, but with a focus on, you know, LGBTQ rights, in Japan and beyond, which was really, there should be no walls between foreign qualified lawyers and Japanese qualified lawyers.
There should be no walls, really siloed thinking in terms of private practice and in-house. There should be no hang ups of who's qualified in the law in Japan or overseas as opposed to legal professionals who are working in-house as well. They're very much a legal professional regardless of their qualification.
And so really trying to gather everybody in the legal community for women in law, I think LLAN was trying to do as well. So I showed up at the breakfast meeting because, you know, the offer of breakfast is on the table as well. I had a nice coffee. The person who had invited me there was not there, but other very vibrant people, a lot of different people from the legal community who I had not necessarily known in the past.
Some I did, but some I didn't. It was just a very vibrant group of people trying to build something, which very much, in that mode of just starting women in law with an amazing group of fellow like-minded, female legal professionals, it very, very much felt it was, they were trying to give birth to something and I really was very inspired by what the group was trying to do.
It really was, I think, equal marriage rights was very much in the minds of people. But it was not very strongly voiced from the very beginning, I think, because it was really, perhaps we should try a different path, you know, not go for just equal rights, just as a singular purpose of this group.
But, trying to promote awareness of LGBTQ people and rights in the workplace, in society, in education, in youth, and all kinds of things. So yeah, it was a very exciting time to be part of that. And I really do believe in the equal marriage rights in Japan for LGBTQ people because, I think it's a Martin Luther King saying, The Dr. Reverend King, injustice is a threat to justice anywhere.
So in society, if we see that there's an injustice that is systematically being carried out, then it's a threat to other places and other parts of society where we think we have some sense of equality or basic human rights. That's my basis for getting involved and thinking of supporting and advocating for equal marriage rights in Japan.
Catherine: Oh, wonderful. And what kind of activities are they doing? I know they have the gala that comes up each year. What else is happening more regularly or that people listening may be able to get involved in there Rika?
Rika: I think there's definitely a growing group of people getting involved, and I think one of the main focuses is educating corporations or individuals within corporations as to what the status of LGBTQ rights is in Japan, and how it could be so much more different. But also really it's a, there's a monthly meeting that's conducted online and has been for the past few years during Covid.
Anybody can join. and if anybody has any ideas as to approach a corporate to sign up to the viewpoint, equal marriage rights viewpoint, that was created with the Human Resources Committee of the ACCJ. That's very much a grassroots, very specific activity that we're always looking for more supporters and volunteers
Catherine: Yeah. That's brilliant. And that is a really great call out to get signed up if people have not done that already. That is fantastic. So how are you managing then Rika, to balance? I don't really like balance, I'm gonna say mesh, meshing this career with your broader life. You're just fitting it all in or you're prioritising things over other things to get everything in there.
Because you're doing a lot, you're really helping a lot of people with your balance of your work and these other career options and other activities that you're doing, how do you manage it?
Rika: I think, you should never bite off more than you can chew. So if you choose to support or advocate, I think you do need to pick the causes or the purpose that you really, really believe in. So I believe that what I've been very fortunate to be able to do in certain roles and affiliations with groups of people that in daily life you can allocate as much time or as little time or there are certain times in the year, you know, work, you know, very specific months and weeks where work just has to be, you know, 150% that you can work around that.
But because there are things that I really believe you cannot just put to a side and take up a few years later, they're all life issues at hand that it really just sustains me to be part of it, part of the activities as well to keep on going.
Catherine: That sums it up. I mean, they're life issues, so they're not something that you just pick up and put down. They're all part of, and they seem like to be, to me, golden threads running through everything that you are doing. Right? Yeah. I'm getting that vibe from you, Rika. And I know also this, this new role that you've taken on is another exciting challenge.
I mean, like me in my new role too. We're five months in, so I know it's been an exciting whirlwind for you, but these kinds of board roles, if I move into this area to talk with you about, is that they're really, I'm finding different to executive roles in law firms, like being a partner or different to being an executive in an organisation like leading a legal department.
So what are you discovering in this role, about the role of an outside director, about yourself and maybe confirming what you imagined before or maybe there are things that have come up that you didn't expect. It's a big question, but. , I think many people listening in will be thinking about similar kinds of roles.
So it would be really great to hear your impressions, as you're in this, moving through this role at the moment.
Rika: I very much thought that being offered to join a board in an outside director role really was a culmination of what I had really aspired to do and really talking to you. Catherine, thank you for the opportunity to hark back on my uni days, my late teens, early twenties, thirties.
The kind of trajectory is that I really did think as a Japanese female student graduating, and deciding not to join a Japanese corporate, a Japanese company as an employee. One idea that I had at the time was that even if I do, it's a rat race. It's a very competitive, you know, hardworking, very focused thing that you have to do.
Where the starting line is, you know, when you start on the job training and whatnot, but however much I was able to achieve or attain, I would never become shacho, let alone a board member. It was actually a very uppity thing that crossed my mind, when I was thinking of getting a professional qualification.
So now being on the board of a Japanese listed company, which has a very diverse business, and being able to see how the strategies are formed or the operations are run from that viewpoint is really such an interesting, challenging, amazing, opportunity to really be able to be part of that.
And I was very excited to start. There was a lot of information being shared before I physically joined and being confirmed at the A G M in late June. And now once I've started, it's been really, really interesting and a very big learning curve. It's really, I was excited because I knew that it would give me a vantage point that I had always thought existed, but actually had no real hands-on experience in.
So to be really, to be living that dream and being able to be involved in a company's business in that kind of way is very exciting.
Catherine: Yeah, I think you're right with that vantage point that you, we know exists, but we've never seen it in action. Precisely. And when you're inside the company on the board, you can see how the decisions are made in these huge corporations, and things that we just didn't know and how incredibly exciting and interesting that is.
And I love how you said it's a culmination of all the things that you did, and sometimes we don't always know how, or we don't know why those dots connect, but we are on this trajectory to lead to something. And I think that's what you are saying there, that it's led you in this way to this particular role. Is there something that you've heard beforehand that you heard that was sort of like a myth about an outside director role or something that you had heard that you thought was a little different in the reality of what you're doing now?
Rika: I think it really depends on the company that you've joined, the company's board that you joined. I have joined a board where more than the majority is outside directors in my case. Also, in terms of time commitment and the depth of involvement that you are asked as an outside director, in my case, is very involved.
So it was made very clear to me at the beginning that we are a company, a board where we ask a lot of our outside directors. Their time commitment as well as they're really getting into and understanding what the business is and also to be able to be part of the strategy and the eyes and ears of the shareholders, of course, in terms of monitoring how the business is going.
Although being told it was going to be very involved, I think it's a lot more involved than I had initially thought. In terms of a variety, not just time, but yeah, preparation as well as the really being embraced to be part of the, part of the company.
Catherine: Yeah, you're right. There is a lot of time commitment, but without committing to the time and the preparation that you can't be the kind of director that they're expecting you to be. So it is very important, especially at the outset now, right, in these initial stages to be doing that.
It's interesting. I'd like to ask you if there are any kind of, do you think personalities or traits or strengths that you need as an outside director? Probably especially as a lawyer to be on the board of a Japanese company.
Rika: I think as lawyers we are trained and look to provide very clear communication as to what you're saying or what you are projecting. But in order to do that, you really need to be able to bring your whole self to the role as a lawyer in your legal job. And that is very much a good basis for going in as a member of the board who, you know, people would know what your expertise is, but at the same time, also get to know you holistically as well, where you stand. What your interests are, what your perspective is on life and work and society, and on that basis your voice obviously carries weight, but it has to be communicated from a position of clarity. You can't speak or lead without knowing where you stand on things and how you see things.
And I am learning a lot from my fellow outside directors as well, who have very different experiences than myself, as well as different backgrounds as well. And so I can see that they're very good at what they do because they do bring clarity as to why they're saying certain things or why certain things are very much at the forefront of their concern, or focus. Because of past experiences or past ideas and policies, internal guiding rules, compasses that they each and every one of them have.
Catherine: Mm. that's the whole crux of it, isn't it? To be able to communicate your voice in a very clear way. There's no point in you being there if you can't do that. Otherwise, they don't know what your benefit is. The benefit of having you there is your value is to contribute. I really like that.
Anything else there, Rika?
Rika: I think I'll just say one thing about how I see and hope a group like Women in Law Japan, currently now an informal voluntary organisation and network can be, which is really a strength of community for people who seek out fellow female legal professionals, and I shouldn't say female even, but fellow legal professionals who they can reach out to as a community for guidance and help and mentorship.
But I really do feel that if we are able to connect and share and nurture ourselves as a group, that it will be somewhere in the whole scheme of things that people will be inspired or there will be a spark to hope to become board members in the future. So more women legal professionals which will lead to women on boards.
Catherine: Do you mean getting the experience then from being on that organisation which is driven to helping legal professionals can lead people to get inspired to be on a board?
Rika: Yes.
Catherine: Right. Yes.
Indeed. And I guess too, advice for lawyers then would be something like that to get involved in your community.
Don't only think about your work and delivering excellent legal advice. That's clear legal advice to clients, but also being involved in the community.
Rika: Definitely. So, yes, and I say this as a recovering workaholic who really didn't invest the time at the start of my career, or even middle of my career to the community or outside I was doing some, but really, I really look back and think I could have done more or I could have done or kept an interest in doing different things from an earlier stage.
And I think part of me was, well, I don't need a women's network when I'm trying to, you know, grow my business and, you know, I just wanna be seen as a professional rather than a female professional. But as you know, life experiences and, you know, you see how really the needle hasn't necessarily moved much in Japanese society or the corporate world or even beyond.
I really thought with a group like Women in Law that we can start with where our sort of professional basis is, but really it hopefully will be something that can spread out into the other groups of professionals or in business as a whole.
Catherine: Yeah, I love that. Any other career advice then, Rika, that you would offer up for lawyers?
Rika: I think maybe it's the theme that I was able to pick up myself along the way, but I really will just be very succinct and say embrace change.
Catherine: Hmm.
Rika: If there's a fork in the road in terms of your career, I would say always choose the seemingly difficult and challenging path always. That can be hopefully a guiding point for some.
If you take what you think is the kind of easier, more comfort zone within your comfort zone decision then there's limited opportunity to grow. But if you do take the path where you think is, oh no, that's too difficult or that's too challenging, that's too much of a time commitment, then I think you won't know what you can actually achieve.
Catherine: Hmm. Very good advice. Rika.
We're going to head into the lighter note of the episode where we do the final quick fire round that I use to wind up the interviews. And so the first question if I might ask you is if you could live anywhere in the world, where would that be?
Rika: Oh wow.
I love Tokyo. I really, really do. It's the most exciting city in the world, but if I could in another life or what have you, I would love to spend some full-time committed time in Kyoto, Japan.
Catherine: Oh Kyoto. I see they just did a Jidai Matsuri in the weekend. Right? The festival of the ages. Through the ages. Interesting. Yes, Kyoto. How beautiful.
And what about if it was a different occupation, Rika? If you could do a totally different occupation, magically qualified for it, had the experience, what would it be?
Rika: I did think about this.
Catherine: Did you?
Rika: I really couldn't come up with just one. I'll just rattle off some that I thought of.
Catherine: Yes.
Rika: Activist, change maker, writer, journalist, producer of a movement, or community.
Catherine: I think you're kind of doing that in a way, actually as your additional persona, your aligned persona is really already doing that. You just might wanna write a book about it. Interesting. And if you could write a book tomorrow, would you write it about activism and change making, or something else?
Rika: What first comes to mind, and I hadn't thought about this, but Catherine, you're such a good facilitator, interviewer. I would write about struggles of parenthood.
Catherine: All right. Yes. Good. I want to see that on the shelf sometime, and I'll buy it, or even on Amazon, whatever it is. Fantastic. What's one of your favourite sayings? You talked about Reverend Martin Luther King, but any other favourite sayings that you have that you often talk about or think about?
Rika: Yes, definitely. Catherine. My favourite saying is this;
Humour is the spiciest condiment in the feast of existence. Laugh at your mistakes, but learn from them. Make a jest of your difficulties, but gather strength from them. Joke over your troubles, but overcome them.
Catherine: Wow. I'm just sitting in that. It's amazing. Is that from somewhere?
Rika: Oh, yes, indeed.
Catherine: Yeah.
Rika: It's from Anne of Green Gables.
Catherine: Okay. Well, is there a famous person or celebrity then, that you would love to meet or have already met, or if you had the opportunity to spend a day with somebody? Who would that be and perhaps why?
Rika: A few years ago, Catherine, I was very fortunate to meet The Holiness, the Dalai Llama.
Catherine: Hmm.
Rika: In Dharamshala in India, and it was a very inspiring experience. In good health I would like the opportunity to meet him again.
Catherine: Mm. That's wonderful. How amazing. That's another conversation I have to have with you, how that came to be. And then one last thing. We've learned a lot about you today, Rika, that we didn't know. But is there one additional thing that you would offer up to people listening that we don't know about you that you would like to share.
Rika: I did think of this because I rarely talk about it, but I realise that this makes me sound more Japanese than people think I am. So I would like to offer this, in high school in Yokohama, I was actually the manager, one of the two managers of my high school baseball team. And I actually knew how to take the score or write down how the game was going on a scorebook, I cannot now, but I could then.
Catherine: Ha. Interesting cuz it's quite technical, isn't it? It's very involved the way it's done, it's very deliberate. Wow, I did not know that. That's amazing.
Rika: it shows that I enjoy not necessarily being in the limelight, but being in the background producing, supporting clients achieve greatness.
Catherine: Right. Right. And we need the support acts, we need the people who can help in the background. It's very important. Yeah, I love that. Not out on the field playing the game, being the pitcher, running the bases, but being the one that keeps the score. Otherwise, no one knows in the end who has won and who has lost or how many balls were played, or how many strikes, et cetera were taken.
Right. So it's a very important role. Love it. Well, Rika, we have actually come to the end of our chat on the podcast today. Thank you so much for coming on Lawyer On Air and sharing your gosh, story of passion, what you do in the law, what you do in all the various groups aligned to the law, and just letting us know about this inner core of your philosophy that I think maybe was not something that many people really knew about you.
So I hope this is really inspiring for others, the stories that you've told, and it's been such a pleasure to connect with you in this different way today. Thank you so much.
Rika: Thank you so much, Catherine.
Catherine: How can listeners then connect with you? Would they do that on LinkedIn or through email? What would be a way to keep in touch?
Rika: I'll be very happy to receive any communication via LinkedIn.
Catherine: Great. All right. We'll put that in the show notes. And so anyone interested can connect with Rika, and talk more about the interesting things that she's spoken about today. And so we will finish up here today. And thank you again to all my listeners. Please do like this episode, subscribe to Lawyer on Air and do drop us a short review if you have time.
That really does help the podcast be seen and heard by more people. And I really would love it if you shared this episode with one person at least, that you thought would really enjoy listening to and be inspired to lead a wonderful lawyer extraordinaire life just like Rika. That's all from me. See you on the next episode.
Cheers, kampai and bye for now.
Subscribe using your favourite podcast player.
Apple Podcasts| Spotify| Breaker| Google Podcasts| RadioPublic
We would love to hear from you!
You can record your feedback by clicking on the button below.
By recording a message you are acknowledging and agree that we may share your message with our subscribers and community on social media or other media. Thank you!
Lawyer on Air was the winner of the Bronze Award in the “Best Podcast by a Kiwi Abroad Category” in the New Zealand Podcast Awards 2021.
Lawyer on Air has been nominated for “Best Business Podcast” in the Quill Podcast Awards, 2022! Thank you to all our supporters who voted for the podcast!